Speeding up development ?

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merkill1
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Speeding up development ?

Post by merkill1 »

If i understand things correctly then the relese of open ttd is hold back by old copyright issues due to the gfx .

I have been playing ttdx from way back in the day and been trying the ttdx patch and then the openttd.

The one thing i have noticed is that some great work have been done but way way more have been wasted and the release of a open game is a long long way.

1 of the issues i have noticed is that many want it to be perfect and contain almost everything on release this is not needed the most important thing i think is to get the release asap and focus work on getting it out in a free way that dont need the original files so the masses can try this great game if that is done then it will snowball.

The way to do this fastest i think if it mostly hangs on the gfx is to minimize and not be picky so remove all landscapes but the normal one and stick with one train set then just take any replacement gfx and mix and match 8bit 32bit other who cares.

This might sound harsh but is the best way in the long run i think i have seen many a gfx pack be forgotten over the years and many had the same tiles just in diffrent ways and still there is even now a 8bit and 32 bit going at the same time.
If all tiles are taken from diffrent sets and put in a pack then the ones that need to be made still can be posted on site and then i think more ppl will focus on getting those done.

Sure the 1st free openttr without copyright restrictions will not look the best and only have 1 landscape but atlesast it will be out there spreading like wildfire and more will join this great project and those fugly tile replacements and other ideas and wootnot will come in way faster the snowball will be in motion.

An example would be once the game is out at version 1.000 then you guys could make a gfx only section for terrain and vechicles and other on the homepage and have a monthly votes the "will this tile replace this tile ? yes /no" and let that be there for 1 month and after that the ones voted yes will simply replace the old tile at the v1.001 release the next month a moderator with the right to vote down tiles is probably needed so we dont end up with an obscen tile that someone voten in just for kicks.

In this way many new ppl out there that got the game and got anoyed at some tile will send in new tiles and thus many more will contribute to this project and speed it up i bet the fugly first realese wont last many month before it will look much better.
The new trainsets and other maps can wait i think.

If i have learned 1 thing in life is that ppl want it easy most ppl wont track down an old ttd copy and then mod it with openttd and load gfx pack so keeping it simple 1 game 1 selfextracting zip file 1 version number new gfx included no mods or anything most ppl would rather download a new version of such a small game than get a new gfx pack and update the mod.
To handle all the load of this torrenting the game or getting steam realese it as a free game is probably the way to go.

The hardest part is getting that 1st version out
But all this is asuming that it all comes down to the gfx :)

Sure i know many of you here want some special trainsets and wootnot but everyone on this site can find all that is needed here so we dont have to like this kind of realease it will take some time before we some do probably but lets face it most ppl dont play candyland and have special german trainsets and such in , much of that would come once the 1rst release is out and the the version number have changed a few times so the gfx can settle down and new trains have been voted in on the train page.

Man i love this game and always come back to it a few times a year and the openttd is the best thing that has happend to it .
Keep up the good work everyone and dont take this as critique its just a sugestion and in idea i had at work i want the release of this game so bad and no one can get the original anymore unless they pirate it i hope more ppl get to play this gem.
I freaking love openttd
jaybud4
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by jaybud4 »

The development speed has nothing to do with using the graphics of the original game.
This is similar to saying that the homebrew implementations of Quake and such on the DS are having their development slowed down by the fact that they are using data from commercial games. It's simply not true. Sure, their fanbase is limited by this due to the fact that the users must own the original TTD (Incidentally you can still easily get copies from lots of internet retailers), but development speed has nothing to do with it.
I'm fairly certain they have no plans to get rid of the original graphics.
(Any developer please feel free to prove that statement wrong)
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Mchl
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by Mchl »

OpenGFX project - project aimed at replacing original copyrighted sprites with free GFX is doing quite fine here.

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=38122
dihedral
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by dihedral »

who said that the no 1 priority is a release with own graphics?
it's an aim, some please to get to in some time, but nowhere have i read or heard that it was the no 1 prio.

and what do you mean with 'release'? there are a bunch of releases, currently 0.6.2-RC2 (in fact just released a few days ago)
merkill1
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by merkill1 »

I think you missed my point .
It is the release of a standalone non copyrighted game that can be spread for the masses so not only the hard core fans get to play this great game i want to speed up.

If i understand things correctly then such a release is mostly hold up by the gfx copyright issue that is why i wrote what i did but correct me if im wrong.

I know that the development and refinement of the game itself is a totaly diffrent process that will take time and thats fine and well but that level of refinement is not needed for a first release such work is an ongoing process that will go on and on for years.

I myself is satisfied by the original gfx and the gameplay of openttd as it is now but thats got nothing to do with it all.

So yes i should probably had used the phrasing "speeding up the release of the 1st noncopyrighted openttd standalone game" to be more clear with what my post was all about.
merkill1
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by merkill1 »

Mchl
Yes i know of that great project and i am using those gfx myself :)
A question about that thou
That project is say it is half done with replacing the gfx do you know if they are going to replace all gfx or just the ones needed for the normal map ?


My original post was mainly though as a way to speed the replacement of the copyrighted gfx up by simply grabbing all the gfx availible no matter if it is 8 bit or 32 bit or whatever and keep it too the minimun needed for a noncopyrighted release.

Say for exapmle you base it on the 8bit replacement project and then fill in all the gfx that is not there from other sources like the 32bit proj and many many more older projects that is no longer active to reduce the numer of gfx needed to be done to the minimum for a noncopyrighted release so users dont need the original ttd.

This would ofc mean that you only keep the normal map type , too further cut down on gfx needed and and go with the trains and other bus and planes that are already done.
After all that can be aded later bit by bit as they are done and are not needed for the first release.

Sure such a mixed release would not look the best but atleast it would make the copyright issue and need for the original game go away.

And if a gfx voting page is set up with say one page for trains,bus,planes&boats each then you have a simple voting 3page system that ppl can sent in there gfx to and that gfx would be put to a vote for say 1 month after that if the new gfx win over the old one that replaces the old gfx in the next gfx release and is removed from the voting page ofc next month someone else might send in the same one agan and that could be voted in again so the gfx will probably shift a bit in the first year before it settles but it will change faster.

I know this might be to the liking of all those who have done such a great job with diff gfx project but i have seen to many come and die over the years and i just want imagine a way for an open ttd to be possible without the original game out there for ppl to play as fast as possible.

I have all hopes for the open gfx project and they will probably get it done in the end and it will look much better than what i am sugesting but maybe it wont be done as fast.

But then i dont know anything how its all put togheter with coding and such so its probably not even possible to do in the way i suggest but hey i was just bitten by the yearly train bug nostalgia and hopes run high!
Rubidium
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by Rubidium »

So you want to send a crappy unmatching graphics mess with the first version that doesn't need the original TTD GRFs? That's not going to send out a good message, especially because we try to focus on quality not on quickly releasing.

So... the only way to "speed up the development" is by starting to draw good quality replacement sprites.
Mchl
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by Mchl »

OpenGFX is aimed at replacing sprites for all copyrighted sprites for all climates (toyland included). It is progressing nicely, and I think it is likely to succeed.

In the other thread there's sound replacement project going on (sample.cat file - hope you didn't forgot about this one ;) ). I don't really know how's it going.

And I support Rubidium. I've seen some open-source or otherwise free games, where GFX looked like they were done by several dozen of people never talking to each other about it. This didn't look good.
merkill1
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by merkill1 »

I can understand the that you dont want to send something crappy out to the public but such a release would help the comunity by not needing the original ttd and would create one game out of this and not a mod like it is now.

I think that would probably help development of the openttdgame but you are probably right in the regard that it may not have ben the best idea to spread such a release to much , but it could be called openttddevelopmentcopy beta or something like that and not be promoted and kept in forum or such to circulate among fans.


OpenGFX is a very nice project but i still think that the first version would only need to contain the normal map and the rest aded in later releases when finished to allow a faster release of an openttdgame without copyright restriction to get out faster.
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Timitry
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by Timitry »

If you would want to release a version with e.g. only the Temperate climate, you would have to code that etc, which would take a lot of effort, too, which should be spend on the real development.
Players who want to play the game really urgently will probably succeed in finding a ttd copy on the internet.
And i think the OpenGFX project is progressing nicely and won't take too long to get finished.
dihedral
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by dihedral »

the community is very well able of handling the required 3rd party grf files, else there would be no community - the issue only rises with new players (and most of them are capable of handling the current situation with the required files). those players who are not capable of reading a readme file, or the wiki, or dont ask on irc, are the kind of people that would latest get stuck with some in-game issue and quite honestly - i dont miss that! :-P
el koeno
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Re: Speeding up development ?

Post by el koeno »

First of all: I think OTTD is doing a nice job already in "reaching the masses". It's pretty easy to get your hands on a TTD copy, and even easier to download OTTD. I don't have any figures*, but I think the fanbase is already quite big and, more importantly, dedicated.

But let's say we'd really need "to reach the masses". The best way to do so wouldn't be by rushing out a crappy copy. That way the only message reaching said masses is not to care about this game, because it sucks.

*are there any figures on how many OTTD players there are? Would be interesting to know how this project stacks up against commercial games.
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