Japan Set Development

[Toni Babelony]

Well, yes... Erm, we could choose to occupy a two separate ID exclusively for EMU and DMU mail cars or we could implement these as normal mail cars.

[dandan]

They look very similar to Class 115. Why don't we just use them as mail cars for that? I really think we should either have fitting mail cars for all the MUs (possibly optional) or none at all. But I think it would be strange if these were used with trains that look totally different, even if that might be realistic to a certain extent.

Toni, could you draw mail cars for the 415 when you have time? I would really like to test them together with the push/pull feature...

[Toni Babelony]

Sure, here they are

Also, I think for trains with a trainload of liveries (e.g. Class 485, 185, etc.) I'm not going to do mail cars... If someone else would like to do this job, please feel free to use my sprites!

P.s. good luck with testing, dandan!

P.p.s. I only did the trailer cars, is that a problem?

[dandan]

P.p.s. I only did the trailer cars, is that a problem?

No, I think it isn't. IMO it's okay if driving cars always look the same. Otherwise we would need even more mail car sprites.

Also, I think for trains with a trainload of liveries (e.g. Class 485, 185, etc.) I'm not going to do mail cars...

Well, there is no hurry... but perhaps you change your mind someday

Here is an update of the signals. The only change is that if you now set the first parameter to 1, it will use light signals only. (Useful e.g. if you want to replace all semaphores with light signals at some point. Also, some people seem to generally dislike semaphores).

[krtaylor]

Dandan, I found a bug - the CHIKI 10 (1950s) flatcar is supposed to be able to carry wood, and it does show wood in the list - but you can in fact not actually refit it to carry wood. This is a problem... I think they should also be able to carry steel too, but I'm playing in the Arctic where there isn't any so I can't test that.

[dandan]

FIXED (problem was only in arctic)

[krtaylor]

Well, sort of fixed. Yes, you can refit them to wood now, and they will carry it. But the graphics are steel pipes, not logs. Ooops...!

Thanks though, at least I can play the game.

[dandan]

Well, sort of fixed. Yes, you can refit them to wood now, and they will carry it. But the graphics are steel pipes, not logs. Ooops...!

Okay, seems I was a little to quick here. I've put it on the list. At least it is playable for now.

Here is another bugfix for the signals. There were still some tiny problems with alignment/sprites of PBS signals. These signals are more work than I thought... I really hope they are okay this time.

[Toni Babelony]

KIHA 07

They were actually just 1 car DMU, but ran in pairs or longer consists as well. Yes, I've even made mail car sprites!

[krtaylor]

Say, while we are drawing, the WAMU10000 boxcar is quite boring. No matter what it is carrying (goods, gold, valuables, food, paper, etc) it always looks the same, blue or brown. Was there more variation in color scheme? Maybe an armored version for valuables/gold and a refrigerated one for food? Or showing white paper rolls through the open door when carrying paper? Just something so you can tell what it's set to handle.

[Toni Babelony]

Say, while we are drawing, the WAMU10000 boxcar is quite boring. No matter what it is carrying (goods, gold, valuables, food, paper, etc) it always looks the same, blue or brown. Was there more variation in color scheme? Maybe an armored version for valuables/gold and a refrigerated one for food? Or showing white paper rolls through the open door when carrying paper? Just something so you can tell what it's set to handle.

You must be talking either about the WAMU 80000 or WAMU 50000?

What bothers me with the freight trains is that they have mixed liveries. Sure, it looks nice in game, but IRL most freight trains have only one livery in Japan. (exept for most container trains, some have had generic containers as well!)

When I'm done with the passenger trains I want to take a look at the freight wagons. The graphics rock, but the classification of 'em is a bit off. Also, the WAMU 80000 is too long, since it's acually the same size as the early in game WAMU 50000. (Should be WAFU 31 and in black IMO) IIRC (closed) freight wagons were black until the 60's in Japan.

The WAMU 80000 has a special livery when in use in Hokkaidô for woodchip transporting and has an open roof. JRF renumbered it to WAFU 480000, but the model is the same. Hell, there are even open passenger carriages made out of WAMU 80000 boxcars!

As I said I'll take a more deeper look into this matter when the passenger trains are done.

P.s. Isn't it better for pre-war freight wagons to have generic classes for freight wagon types. After some research I found out that there was a huge number of different freight car classes and from every class there were not that many made. Data on these pre-war freight wagons is also quite sparse. (apart that they are slow and black )

[krtaylor]

You are quite right, I mean the WAMU 80000 boxcar, silly me.

I think the generic classes we have for pre-war freightcars are exactly right. In fact, I think they are pretty much spot-on perfect just exactly as they are, no changes needed. Also I think the modern freightcars are pretty much great as-is. It's only the 1950s generation ones that I have some doubts about.

[Toni Babelony]

I think the generic classes we have for pre-war freightcars are exactly right. In fact, I think they are pretty much spot-on perfect just exactly as they are, no changes needed. Also I think the modern freightcars are pretty much great as-is.

Yes, I wasn't present at that stage of development, so I don't really know about the development stuff from that time. Maybe a bit too arrogant from me wanting to redo the freight wagons as well. (I shouldn't think about those things when drinking, but draw instead )

It's only the 1950s generation ones that I have some doubts about.

The only wagon where the sprites are 'wrong' is the WAMU 80000. Simply too long. The other sprites are good, especially those from the TAKI 8000, those are absolutely pure win!

Anyway, if the Japan Train Set is ever going to be compatible with ECS we would also need new sprites for the other cargo types.

[krtaylor]

Well, if you want to improve/redraw the freightcars, certainly I have no objection, you've done great things in your other redraws. Especially if you know more about what they actually look like! And new graphics for the ECS cargoes are OK too although I don't view that as much of a priority at this time.

If you're in an adventurous mood, you could try drawing the sprites for animating the steam locos...

[Toni Babelony]

Well, if you want to improve/redraw the freightcars, certainly I have no objection, you've done great things in your other redraws. Especially if you know more about what they actually look like! And new graphics for the ECS cargoes are OK too although I don't view that as much of a priority at this time.

Sure. Let's finish the passenger and mail trains first, finish all data and then look what else there is to do.

If you're in an adventurous mood, you could try drawing the sprites for animating the steam locos...

Yeah, I know you really want that to happen, but it's not that high om my priority list... Lots of work... Lots of work... Besides, I don't have that much experience with animating, but Flash.

[Toni Babelony]

Double post for the win!

Okay, I'm now working on the KIHA 58, but there really are a lot of liveries to be done as almost every province (県 [Ken]) has its own livery...

I've already done these:

jnrKIHA58.png (10.35 KiB) Viewed 2415 times

Here there are more liveries: http://www.uraken.net/rail/alltrain/kiha58.html The ones I'm not going to do are the trains with 'ジョイフルトレイン' in the description as these are unique one-off rental trains. That does scrap about 50% off the list, but there are still a lot left. So, I also cancel the Hokkaidô, Kyûshû and Shikoku liveries. Still, that leaves ±15 liveries... Do want or do not want? (Mail cars will only be in 'classic' livery by the way as these only existed in that livery)

[dandan]

That Kiha 58 looks very good. In my opinion, five different liveries is already quite a lot, but go ahead and do one or two more if you feel like it. But sometimes you also want to buy a train with a particular livery (for example to match an existing train on the same line) and if there are too many random liveries, you might have to try many times.

As far as the freight cars are concerned, I also think that the existing ones are pretty good already. But of course there is always room for improvement.

[Toni Babelony]

'Hokay, Here are the finished sprites of the KIHA 58.

I've tried to include the most colourful and most common trains I could find. Only JR East, JR West, JR Central and the JNR 'classic' liveries are there.

The JNR 'classic' livery goes (again) until 1985

[krtaylor]

I don't think we should attempt to include EVERY livery out there. We should just pick the most common and/or colorful (or uniquely attractive) liveries to give a good "feel" for the game. Even with the large maps of TTD, I do not expect anyone to attempt to model the entire Japanese railway system...

Although somewhere around I saw pictures of some people that modeled the entire Tokyo-area railway network in model trains. Took up an entire gymnasium.

[Toni Babelony]

Agreed. I didn't attempt to include every livery with most sprites I made, since most liveries are just plain boring. Yess! Only 4 trains to be done!

The Class 885 Kamome/Sonic is going to be scraped off the list as this is a Kyûshû only train and the Class 683 Thunderbird is a lot more interesting as it's operated by JR West and Hokuhoku Tetsudou. The Thunderbird thus runs over 4 different networks: JR West, JR Central, JR East, Hokohoku Tetsudou. Not only JR Kyûshû like the Kamome/Sonic. Also, the Thunderbird has a more interesting/recognisable livery than the plain white Kamome/Sonic.


Also, I've seen that Tokyo layout when I was a kid at an exhibition in Rotterdam. It was scale 1:3000 or something and really damn impressive! It was mostly concentrated around the Yamanote-line (Circle line of Tokyo), but all was made out of paper and unmovable.
When I'm going to play with the finished Japan Train Set on a large map, I'll definitely give every single line a different livery, timetable and different platforms. It's going to be a hell of a job afterwards, but it will be worth my time.

EDIT: JR East KIHA E200 done when I got out of bed I just felt like drawing it...