What's the point, anyway?

Got an idea for OpenTTD? Post it here!

Moderator: OpenTTD Developers

Post Reply
daniel3ub
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 14
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 14:01

What's the point, anyway?

Post by daniel3ub »

What's the point in trying to send bug reports and suggestions, if the developers are not polite and don't really care about user's suggestions?

See it:

"FS#1939 - Truck station at NW of Refinery acepts nothing
User who did this: - Jean-Francois Claeys (Belugas)

Reason for closing: - Not a bug
Additional comments about closing: - It will stay as it is. It is not
a bug, it is by design. Period. You don't like it? Create a grf.

More information can be found at the following URL:
http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1939"

At least when it comes to the TTDPatch forum, i've never been treated like that.

The game has a design fail. I'm trying to help pointing this fail. At least be polite.
Who is this guy, anyway? OpenTTD's Owner?

Sad...

:(
User avatar
belugas
OpenTTD Developer
OpenTTD Developer
Posts: 1507
Joined: 05 Apr 2005 01:48
Location: Deep down the deepest blue
Contact:

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by belugas »

daniel3ub wrote:What's the point in trying to send bug reports and suggestions, if the developers are not polite and don't really care about user's suggestions?

See it:

"FS#1939 - Truck station at NW of Refinery acepts nothing
User who did this: - Jean-Francois Claeys (Belugas)

Reason for closing: - Not a bug
Additional comments about closing: - It will stay as it is. It is not
a bug, it is by design. Period. You don't like it? Create a grf.

More information can be found at the following URL:
http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1939"
What's the point in trying to explain you that it is not a bug and why it is not a bug when you don't even want to consider the possibility of what we're trying to tell you?

The game has some rules established since the original one. YOU do not like those rules, or you think they are nor fair, it is YOUR decision and YOUR judgment. Everybody feels good about them, the tile acceptance stuff is published and known. Reasons on why we do not want them changed have been given to you :
Comment by Remko Bijker (Rubidium) - Saturday, 19 April 2008, 12:52AM wrote: More reasons to not 'fix' this:
- in TTD only the 'tower' accepts oil, you can check that and I've just rechecked it.
- changing it means breaking NewGRFs.
- you can fix it if you like by a NewGRF.
- it has always behaved in the way it does now.
- (Open)TTD does not realistically model reality.
- it breaks savegames unrecoverably because there will be stations that do not accept oil anymore when they previously did.
You do not seems to think those reasons are good enough. YOUR problem. Not ours
daniel3ub wrote:At least when it comes to the TTDPatch forum, i've never been treated like that.
Looking at your ONLY TWO previous posts in TTDP, not controversial at all, i can believe you were not treated this way. But here, it is a very different story.
daniel3ub wrote:The game has a design fail. I'm trying to help pointing this fail. At least be polite.
Who is this guy, anyway? OpenTTD's Owner?
I'm not OpenTTD owner. I'm one of the devs, who spent (personally) the last 2 years working on making the game better, on personal free time and most precisely a full year doing the newindustries thing.

Now, imagine how pissed off i can be when, even after explaining why we will not do it, a user with so very few experience of the game comes in and basically says that the way it is done is wrong just because HE THINKS it is? SO does it means that all the VERY numerous people who played and programmed the game (in general : TTD, TTDPatch, OpenTTD) are basically too stupid not to have seen the famous flaw YOU have discovered ??

It may very well be on your point of view, that it is a flaw. I do not refute that. But since WE are the ones dealing with the code, since WE are the ones who will have to defend ANY modifications been done, I think we deserve the rights to draw a line and say NO.

Suggestions are indeed helpful. Bugs reports are indeed required in order for the game to go on. But what a user sees as a bug is not necessarily a real one. And thus is NOT a bug. This is the case, where an impression is held high as a conviction. Check original game. Check TTDPatch. Check with other users. A design is a design. There is no flaw here. It is one of the rules of the game. That's it.

Now... have I been impolite? I may have been direct. But not impolite. Didn't called you names nor anything. Just that i cut the conversation, as it was meaningless.
If you are not ready to work a bit for your ideas, it means they don't count much for you.
OpenTTD and Realism? Well... Here are a few thoughs on the matter.
He he he he
------------------------------------------------------------
Music from the Bloody Time Zones
daniel3ub
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 14
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 14:01

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by daniel3ub »

C'mon.
If somebody tells you: "This could be better this way"
And you answer "Then do it yourself if you don't like it"
That is to be impolite when you don't even consider the idea, trashing it as soon as you put your eyes on it.

I really thought it was a bug, because I've never seen this, despite of playing TTD for years.
Then somebody explained me that, and I asked to reopen the ticket because I think this could be done better. Yes, it is my suggestion and my opinion, and, as far as I know, maybe other people may agree with me. I thought there were a team developing this amazing game, and not just one person deciding what to do and what not.

There are many many ways on saying things. You've could just skipped the "do it for yourself" crap and told me why, in your opinion, this could not be done. This would be direct, too, although much more polite.

But ok. You think you are right. You have this right, anyway.

I'll continue playing it, but from now on without worrying about bugs and suggestions.
Keep up the great work, and sorry if I pissed you off.
DaleStan
TTDPatch Developer
TTDPatch Developer
Posts: 10285
Joined: 18 Feb 2004 03:06
Contact:

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by DaleStan »

daniel3ub wrote:C'mon.
If somebody tells you: "This could be better this way"
And you answer "Then do it yourself if you don't like it"
That is to be impolite when you don't even consider the idea, trashing it as soon as you put your eyes on it.
No, Belugas carefully considered how many things it would break if that idea got implemented, and then made a carefully considered decision. Specifically:
"Fixing" this in code will break more things than it will fix. There is, however, newgrf, which is designed[0] to make exactly this sort of change, and in a way that will not break things the way a codechange would. Therefore, this should be done with newgrf. Since I am an OpenTTD developer, not an NFO coder, newgrf modifications are not my job; this is something you can do yourself.
[0] Go away, RichK.
To get a good answer, ask a Smart Question. Similarly, if you want a bug fixed, write a Useful Bug Report. No TTDPatch crashlog? Then follow directions.
Projects: NFORenum (download) | PlaneSet (Website) | grfcodec (download) | grfdebug.log parser
nezzybaby
Traffic Manager
Traffic Manager
Posts: 141
Joined: 30 May 2007 12:43

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by nezzybaby »

Yes damn belugas, damn all the developers, working away for hours on end developing an awesome piece of software for free, damn them all for not listening and instantly implementing all of our unecessary little complaints. Aren't they utter b******, I mean if i was developing a free piece of software for someone I'd want to be told i was doing it wrong every second, that wouldn't annoy me in the slightest. If i had hundreds of bug reports to reply to, I'd ensure to send a full five page report detailing all reasons why this may and may not be possible to every single one!!

[/sarcasm]

Cheers for all your hard work devs, some of us do appreciate you!!
Draakon
Director
Director
Posts: 542
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 16:50

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by Draakon »

@daniel3ub: I see you don't respect OpenTTD teams work. As you know, in OpenTTD you can make it yourself faster then waiting for someone to do it.

Oh, and get a life.
User avatar
GeekToo
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 961
Joined: 03 Jun 2007 22:22

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by GeekToo »

daniel3ub wrote:What's the point in trying to send bug reports and suggestions, if the developers are not polite and don't really care about user's suggestions?
:(
I think you're being too hard on the developers. On two occasions, I did report a bug / suggestion for improvement on the forums, and did not even bother to put it on flyspray :oops: . In both cases the patch I made was put in trunk / NoAi branch within 2 days. So in my opinion they really do care, and are very willing to listen to remarks, as long as you explain very clearly what the problem is, and how it can be solved.

I've also made the extra zoom patch, and they did not put it in the mainstream, and they are right again! It is a very experimental patch, and if I were an OpenTTD developer, I wouldn't integrate it either. But I did make that patch because I liked to explore the possibilities of 32bpp graphics, the main goal was never to get it into trunk. When it has proven it's value, I'll chop it into smaller patches (like the transparency part) and I'm sure they will give it a fair chance.

But they are doing a lot of work, and may be excused to not replying to every request of users on the forums, being busy with what they're good at, i.e. improving the OpenTTD code. And my experience is that they're really judging improvements quite fairly. Of course you can disagree with them, I do sometimes, but then the way to go is to start a discussion based on arguments, not on personal attacks.
daniel3ub
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 14
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 14:01

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by daniel3ub »

ok.
I'm wrong. You are right.
Over.
I don't want to attack nobody, I just wanted to give my two cents, and I didn't like the way I've been treated. That's all.
I think OpenTTD is an amazing game, and an amazing project. I recommend it to everybody I know.
I know the developers are doing a great job, and, yes, I respect their work.

I'm sorry, again, if I pissed somebody off.
I think this discussion can end here and now, right?

I'll continue to play it, and if you, developers, don't mind, I want to be able to open more tickets if I think I find a bug or if I have a suggestion, do you agree?

Thanks for your work, and sorry again.
richk67
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2363
Joined: 05 Jun 2003 16:21
Location: Up North
Contact:

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by richk67 »

DaleStan wrote:[0] Go away, RichK.
WTF? NewGRF is designed, it just aint a language - it is an encoding. Dont put arguments in my mouth out of your imagination.
OTTD NewGRF_ports. Add an airport design via newgrf.Superceded by Yexo's NewGrf Airports 2
Want to organise your trains? Try Routemarkers.
--- ==== --- === --- === ---
Firework Photography
DaleStan
TTDPatch Developer
TTDPatch Developer
Posts: 10285
Joined: 18 Feb 2004 03:06
Contact:

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by DaleStan »

Oh. Sorry. I though you'd objected at one point that it wasn't designed; it just kinda grew. Obviously I misremembered. Maybe someone else said that?
To get a good answer, ask a Smart Question. Similarly, if you want a bug fixed, write a Useful Bug Report. No TTDPatch crashlog? Then follow directions.
Projects: NFORenum (download) | PlaneSet (Website) | grfcodec (download) | grfdebug.log parser
richk67
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 2363
Joined: 05 Jun 2003 16:21
Location: Up North
Contact:

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by richk67 »

DaleStan wrote:Oh. Sorry. I though you'd objected at one point that it wasn't designed; it just kinda grew. Obviously I misremembered. Maybe someone else said that?
Yeah, definitely not me (as far as my deteriorating brain cells can remember). I know its designed - my only issues are a) clarity of documentation, and b) anyone calling it a language ;)
OTTD NewGRF_ports. Add an airport design via newgrf.Superceded by Yexo's NewGrf Airports 2
Want to organise your trains? Try Routemarkers.
--- ==== --- === --- === ---
Firework Photography
el koeno
Route Supervisor
Route Supervisor
Posts: 454
Joined: 24 Sep 2004 15:47

Re: What's the point, anyway?

Post by el koeno »

nezzybaby wrote:Yes damn belugas, damn all the developers, working away for hours on end developing an awesome piece of software for free, damn them all for not listening and instantly implementing all of our unecessary little complaints. Aren't they utter b******, I mean if i was developing a free piece of software for someone I'd want to be told i was doing it wrong every second, that wouldn't annoy me in the slightest. If i had hundreds of bug reports to reply to, I'd ensure to send a full five page report detailing all reasons why this may and may not be possible to every single one!!

[/sarcasm]

Cheers for all your hard work devs, some of us do appreciate you!!
Come on, that was out of line. At no point did the OP say he disrespected the work of the devs. Would he bother to file a bug report if he did? No, he cares about the devs' work, and proposes ways to make it better. I don't want to discuss the merit of this particular "bug" report (I've actually been annoyed by it my self, finding out years later my oil terminal was located at the wrong spot), but I think he has a point when he says people around here can be a bit nicer to each other (especially to newbies). Often when newbies have questions, all people can do is whine that they should use the search function first. The search function isn't all to good, and it's quite hard telling whether a possible answer you've found is out of date. Besides, it's more fun discussing things than to have to search everything.

Having said that, I don't think Belugas was more disrespectful than the OP himself here. A PM would have sufficed if you don't like something Belugas did, no reason to make a public statement about it. And as long as the devs keep working on this great game, this is the last time you heard me about it. ;)
Post Reply

Return to “OpenTTD Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests