YAPP - Yet Another PBS Patch (now in trunk!)

[MrMox]

I hadn't noticed that the train in the station had lost its track reservation - any idea what could cause that? Just prior to the situation at Dorval Valley I had a similar crash a Gaspé Valley (located just above Dorval Valley) so it's not an isolated incident.

There may be an autosave prior to the crash but I have since progressed a number of years in the game so it may no longer exist. I'll check tonight. In any case I think my best bet is to revert to the signaling used in the screen shots and see if the crash reoccurs - in that case the autosaves should be useful.

Regarding the missing GRF's, US Town Names and US Signals can be found at http://www.as-st.com/ttd/newusa/index.h ... nload.html - the rest are (probably) buried deep in the Graphics section - I doubt they'd make any difference.

[Rainer]

Hi Michi_cc,

you'll notice that the train already at the station does not have a reserved path

I still don't understand why your patch doesn't consider all track pieces with a train on it as reserved regardless of an existing reservation.
cu
Rainer

[peter1138]

I still don't understand why your patch doesn't consider all track pieces with a train on it as reserved regardless of an existing reservation.

Because the test for that is cpu expensive, and it shouldn't be necessary anyway.

[ColdIce]

Hy! I`m new with this sistem! I played today Gonozal VIII patchpack r12180 and tried to figure it out how it work! I have one problem and I dont know how to solve it! The trains dont stop at the signals ! Can you help me please?

[Sacro]

Because that block is cleared for it to enter.

[zypa]

I guess removing all signals directly in front of the station should help.
Placing pbs signals is totally different from placing entry/exit signals.

See the first pages of the YAPP thread.

[MrMox]

Train crash mystery solved - and I only have myself to blame for it...

I found one auto save that showed an early version of Dorval Valley:

4.png (70.77 KiB) Viewed 4997 times

As can be seen only normal one-way signals are used. I think it's a fairly safe bet that I later upgraded the line to a double track and in that process changed the signals to PBS signals while a train was loading at the station, meaning it didn't have a track reservation... Entirely avoidable, entirely my fault, and another lesson learned the hard way.

[ColdIce]

I guess removing all signals directly in front of the station should help.
Placing pbs signals is totally different from placing entry/exit signals.

See the first pages of the YAPP thread.

Yes.. thats the solution! thank you!

[Michi_cc]

As can be seen only normal one-way signals are used. I think it's a fairly safe bet that I later upgraded the line to a double track and in that process changed the signals to PBS signals while a train was loading at the station, meaning it didn't have a track reservation... Entirely avoidable, entirely my fault, and another lesson learned the hard way.

You discovered one of the not-so-optimal points of YAPP, and one that's not easy to solve satisfactory. It's rather easy to say that on upgrading a block every train should have its tracks reserved, but because of pbs through-signals, a signal block could be very large, as large as your whole network in fact, and checking every tile for a train on every signal change is probably not very fast.
And having trains always and everytime reserve tiles conflicts with the goal to have YAPP fully optional without any behavior changes for only using normal signals.

-- Michael Lutz

[The Straw Guy]

Hi, I downloaded the latest full OpenTTD with PBS from this topic, OpenTTD now runs really slow? Is it because of this patch, or have I got a virus? I am only running 2 trains as I just started playing, but when a message pops up the trains have to stop? I have a 1.8Gb processor and 1Gb Ram, so I assume it must be the patch?
Also, the savegame of a PBS network at the start of this thread (Page 4 / 5 somewhere) comes up with an error message? Is this because of the newer version? If so, can someone post a new one as I can't find much information on the wiki about PBS. Cheers.

[flailer]

May I suggest that when trains get to a signal, it checks for a free route both clear of reservations *and* clear of trains themselves? This is in line with track circuiting (or equivalent) on real life railways.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

[Michi_cc]

May I suggest that when trains get to a signal, it checks for a free route both clear of reservations *and* clear of trains themselves? This is in line with track circuiting (or equivalent) on real life railways.

Because this is computationally expensive, like peter1138 already wrote, and will clog up your cpu even faster.

-- Michael Lutz

[Sacro]

May I suggest that when trains get to a signal, it checks for a free route both clear of reservations *and* clear of trains themselves? This is in line with track circuiting (or equivalent) on real life railways.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

Actually, it isn't, there is no way to see if the track circuit is shorted by a train, a peice of wire, or anything, all you can see is that the rails are shorted together. The only way to tell if it is a train that has the reservation is to go and look, this is time consuming for the signalman and thus they tend to rely on reservations being used and cleared afterwards.

Also, if the track circuit fails and shows as being unoccupied (which they should never do as they are designed to be fail-safe), how are the signalman and driver supposed to see and react accordingly?

[BR 155]

I suggest an option to disable all other signals than the YAPP ones. In my eyes after getting accustomed with YAPP, there is no reason to use the other signals at all.

[Sacro]

I suggest an option to disable all other signals than the YAPP ones. In my eyes after getting accustomed with YAPP, there is no reason to use the other signals at all.

Also unrealistic, the UK has "Automatic Signals" which by default show green, and drop to yellow(s) or red when the block(s) ahead are blocked. PBS signals will most likely consume more CPU power, so I personally only use them over junctions where they will actually make a difference.

Also, what about the players who don't wish to use PBS signals?

If you don't like them, just don't use them

[BR 155]

I just suggested an option - if you dont turn it on, you could use the old signals.

[razielanarki]

actually, i do use one of the old signals: the one-way normal one, as there's no need to have pbs "blocks" on a long straight piece of railroad for keeping distance between trains. pbs is only useful in junctions, and station entrances. (also i may be wrong, but too much pbs signals could slow your game down)

[BR 155]

actually, i do use one of the old signals: the one-way normal one, as there's no need to have pbs "blocks" on a long straight piece of railroad for keeping distance between trains. pbs is only useful in junctions, and station entrances. (also i may be wrong, but too much pbs signals could slow your game down)

Indeed performance issues may be a reason to use the old signals - depending on your CPU and amount of trains. I am using Gonozal-patchpack and therefore YAPP 4.3 and it works fine for me. As illustrated earlier in this thread, version 5 should bring along massive performance improvements.

By the way, thanx for this gorgeous patch

[AndiK]

May I suggest that when trains get to a signal, it checks for a free route both clear of reservations *and* clear of trains themselves? This is in line with track circuiting (or equivalent) on real life railways.

Because this is computationally expensive, like peter1138 already wrote, and will clog up your cpu even faster.

-- Michael Lutz

Isn't it possible to set any tile a "loose" train is on to "reserved"? Changes in reservation would only occur when a train reaches a new tile and when it leaves a already reserved one. Shouldn't be too costly in CPU terms, or is it?

Addition, before anyone misunderstands me and thinks I didn't read the other posts correctly: I am of course talking about reserved tiles in the PBS sense. Then the current check for unreserved tiles in Yapp would suffice for preventing most accidents.

[Maedhros]

I've noticed that it's not possible to remove part of a station if it's reserved, but it is possible to build over it, which destroys the reservation. Is this a "user should know better" issue, or is it accidental?