Do you have problems with ECS vectors? Look here!

[Draakon]

George, i read the about your almost leaving thread in TTDPatch but there is still one thing i would like to know:

How can one place ecs industries in scenario editor without those limits where to place them?

[George]

George, i read the about your almost leaving thread in TTDPatch but there is still one thing i would like to know:

How can one place ecs industries in scenario editor without those limits where to place them?

That was not intended. What restrictions are most important for you and give you most troubles while creating a scenario?

[Draakon]

Ok i made a list for all industries and its placing limitations in Scenario Editor

1. Coal mine-none.
2. Power station-must be built inside city.
3. Sand pit-none.
4. Glass works-none.
5. Tourist Center-none except those t-forming rules.
6. Bank-none, only inside city of 1200 population.
7. Forest-cant place very near of another forest.
8. Potash mine-none.
9. Oil wells-none.
10. Oil rig-none.
11. Oil Refinery-none.
12. Chemical Plant-none.
13. Sawmill-Can only be built 20(less or more) tiles away near forest.
14. Steel mill-Can only be built far away from towns.(Build menu says otherwise)
15. Vehicles factory-none
16. Shipyard-inside town, near water(annoying one).
17. Paber mill-near water
18. Printing works-inside town, near water.
19. Furniture factory-inside town, near water.
20. Fishing grounds-cant built near same fishing grounds(minimum space between 2 is 6-10 i think) or near shore
21. Farm-can built only near water(but not close) and space between another farm must be at last 20 tiles i think.
22. Livestock Farm- same as farms(above one, no. 21)
23. Cannery-near water only
24. Lime quarry- none
25. Brick factory-none
26. cement works-none
27. Small and Large construction industry- only in towns
28. Textilera- only in towns
30. Fruit plantation- near water only
31. Brewery-same as shipyard(abone, no. 16)
32. Food Procressing Plant- near water only
33. Factory- In towns or town limits only.

Remember, these are scenario editor limits only.

[VitCons]

I think the rules of closing industries should be less stricted.
Now I've got a problems with industries desapearing in the firs 20 years (70% of it have been closed). The stay alive rating (75%) may be not achivable because of car/train speeds, lack of statues in the towns etc. (for instance I've got a sand pit with a lot truck stations and with enought trucks (with load option) to take all the cargo but the raiting still 65-71% not much, and this sand pit was closed what is really anoyed)

ECS is a very good game extention but it should be little bit less stricted. It is designed for fun, not for very realistic construction

By the way, why it is a chance to close the industry even with 75% transportation level? Why it is possible to close my own factory?

[mcbane]

i noticed that wood is always quite close to sawmills

[VitCons]

Another problem. Why to close Power plant when I use only the following vectors: Town b3, basic, machinery b3, wood b3?
It only accepts the coal and produces nothing. Even more it is not possible to control any parameters to fix the closing. I mean the station only accepst thus has no ratings. The Power plant only accespts a cargo, so no production, transportation levels.

[George]

Another problem. Why to close Power plant when I use only the following vectors: Town b3, basic, machinery b3, wood b3?
It only accepts the coal and produces nothing. Even more it is not possible to control any parameters to fix the closing. I mean the station only accepst thus has no ratings. The Power plant only accespts a cargo, so no production, transportation levels.

Wait for basic b3 this month.

As for industry closure, I'm reworking the closure mechanism now, so the situation will change soon. I hope to finish it this month.

i noticed that wood is always quite close to sawmills

How close? The code specifies them to be build 24-40 tiles away. Does your game provides other distances?

[mcbane]

here

[Draakon]

Georg, did you find out why i have these limits in SE?

[bulb]

With any kind of interesting train and truck sets, the 75% rating is not really achievable early in the game (until ~1970 with UKRS + LV4 + AV8 at least), because there are no vehicles that would get the speed bonus and maximum rating without speed bonus or statue is 61% or 62%.

Later in the game when trains get fast, getting 75% would be quite easy (though with passenger, mail and goods-only maglev, the train speeds don't grow as high with UKRS towards the end of the game).

This is not good for playability. In fact, with the vehicle sets I mentioned, it's rather unplayable.

Now the question is what would be proper solution. I would prefer chaning the station rating calculation. While the passengers/cargo should certainly prefer faster vehicles, I would say that maybe it should affect the station rating only a little, but it should affect to which station the cargo is generated when there are multiple options.

Alternatively the fastest vehicle available should always get the maximum speed bonus and the others should get respective percentage. But I am not sure how hard it would be to find the fastest available vehicle. It has to take into account both engines and wagons for train and it has to take into account which vehicle is refitable to which cargo.

[electricmonk]

I think that as well as the speed of the fastest engine that has stopped at the station (immagine a coal-mine in a town that's also serviced by an express train), the maximum speed of the fastest wagon that is capable of carrying the cargo in question should also be taken into account. This could also mean that ststion ratings drop rapidly when a new wagon is introduced (unless the player instantaneously upgrades all their wagons).

AE.

[George]

here

I do not see sawmill nor forest on the screen shot. Can you specify the bug exactly?
Are they closer than 24 tiles (between northern corners)? If yes - provide the screenshot, game version (build), GRFs dates.

Georg, did you find out why i have these limits in SE?

Because you have them in normal game too? The location check code is the same for SE, map generator, new industry in game.

With any kind of interesting train and truck sets, the 75% rating is not really achievable early in the game (until ~1970 with UKRS + LV4 + AV8 at least), because there are no vehicles that would get the speed bonus and maximum rating without speed bonus or statue is 61% or 62%.

In TTDp I achieve 78-80% rating with DB set in 1950 without any problem. Is rating calculation in OTTD different?

[Draakon]

But you said there should be none in SE(Scenario Editor) and was not intended.

[George]

But you said there should be none in SE(Scenario Editor) and was not intended.

Where did I say that SE has different conditions than in game?

[Draakon]

George, i read the about your almost leaving thread in TTDPatch but there is still one thing i would like to know:

How can one place ecs industries in scenario editor without those limits where to place them?

That was not intended. What restrictions are most important for you and give you most troubles while creating a scenario?

here

[bulb]

I think that as well as the speed of the fastest engine that has stopped at the station (immagine a coal-mine in a town that's also serviced by an express train), the maximum speed of the fastest wagon that is capable of carrying the cargo in question should also be taken into account. This could also mean that ststion ratings drop rapidly when a new wagon is introduced (unless the player instantaneously upgrades all their wagons).

I believe it's maximum speed of the fastest train, that picked up that cargo.

However, that's one of the options I considered. The question is, how to find which is the fastest possible wagon and engine combination, given all the possibilities of refitting.

Another option is, that only passengers and mail would care about the speed of the vehicle. All cargo already depend on it with the transport rate and it's just unrealistic to be better to transport coal with a maglev. Or only the cargo that has the coefficient for transport rate drop higher than something would care (or proportionally to that coefficient).

[George]

George, i read the about your almost leaving thread in TTDPatch but there is still one thing i would like to know:
How can one place ecs industries in scenario editor without those limits where to place them?

That was not intended. What restrictions are most important for you and give you most troubles while creating a scenario?

here

Sorry, English is not my native, but here (IMHO) I wrote that restrictions are the SAME for game and SE.

My question remains. What restrictions should be changed/removed for SE, but stay unchanged in game and why.

[Draakon]

Well the problematic ones will be Shipyard and Brewery ones as placing them inside the city near water takes a long time to find a suitable place. Sawmill limit that it should be built near a forest should be remove because there are lots of Sawmills in world that aren't built near forest where wood will be taken to that Sawmill.(Hope you understand.) Livestock and farm limits that they should be always built near water is a bit unrealistic too as there are farms in real world where water is 5 kilometers away. Also have the avability to build farm more closer to another farm? IF we go again to real world, you might see that farms are next to each other, owners are different. Well those are it i like to be removed but off course i want them all be removed from Scenario Editor

[VitCons]

With any kind of interesting train and truck sets, the 75% rating is not really achievable early in the game (until ~1970 with UKRS + LV4 + AV8 at least), because there are no vehicles that would get the speed bonus and maximum rating without speed bonus or statue is 61% or 62%.

In TTDp I achieve 78-80% rating with DB set in 1950 without any problem. Is rating calculation in OTTD different?[/quote]

(1) The game should have a fair conditions for earlier years too, there should be a way. I like 1920-1950 period for instance . Why i cant achieve a situation where production is OK in 1920, i dont understand.
I hope the "closing" model will be reworked soon.

(2) Its good to have some kind of mechanism to prolong the life of factories somehow. If the factory wich havs a bad rating (maybe connected or not connected to the transport network) and should be closed soon, it should be possible to prolong the life (pay/invest to the factory).
As mentioned before the factory closes just before my nose, when i've just finished building the connection for it

[Gonozal_VIII]

The rating shouldn't affect the ammount of cargo the industry produces, only how it's split between different stations. Why should a factory produce less goods out of the same ammount of raw materials just because the vehicle you pick the goods up with is 3 years old or you don't have a statue in the town? Doesn't make sense.