Central Trains - Your memories

[Parkey]

This weekend I travelled by Central Trains.

Well, I tried to.

I tried to take the turbostar service from Birmingham to Nottingham. The one that doesn't have any legroom that is only two carriages despite quite reliably having enough passengers to fill four. The train arrived at the platform and was swamped and packed to the ceiling with passegers many of whom had waited an hour because the previous train had been cancelled. CT then proceeded to cancel this one too, to the apparent complete surprise of the train crew who were presumably hoping to get home that evening. No reason was ever given, and station announcements advised the riotous crowd of passengers to get on the Virgin Voyager service to Derby instead, which I'm sure some of the already standing virgin passengers on that train really appreciated. There was nothing at all wrong with the line to Derby, and the Virgin serice actually arrived there ahead of schedule.

On arrival at Derby we were greeted by the fact that CT hadn't provided a coach to take us on to Nottingham, which had been mentioned as a possible when we were at Birmingham. Instead the Midland Mainline station manager informed us that they'd been told there were six passengers to go onward to Nottingham. I felt really sorry for her standing there explaining to a rather large crowd of angry people most of whom didn't understand she's not even employed by the same company that they'd all have to wait for the next CT service, which was 40 minutes later, and already running 20 minutes late on top of that.

I may moan about worst late western but in my experience at least their trains generally get to their destinations... eventually. They usually have a go at running a service before just giving up and going home, leaving other train companies to pick up the pieces.

So please share your memories of Central Trains so we can all celebrate the fact that in a month or so there will no longer be a Central Trains.

[Dave]

I think your position is a little biased here. You've used a Citylink service which is quite often prone to cancellations or delays due tot the volatile nature of the network.

Central Trains as a local operator are fantastic, and much better than Worst Late Western anyday of the week.

Scanning the live departure boards for trains through Stourbridge Junction - which are 4-6tph and 2tph in the evening - most days reveal, at worst, one or two trains that are delayed. I think Central do an excellent job on a large amount of miles - just their local services stretch from as far south as Peterborough, to as far west as Hereford, to as far north as Manchester Picadilly and as far east as the eastern coast resorts and "that s*** where Gavin lives". Then Citilink adds destinations to Stansted, Liverpool Lime Street and Cardiff.

The way the Central Franchise is made up, it has not been easy to run - invariably Central suffer from many of their trains running on mainlines - nearly all lines out of Birmingham New Street have other operators using them - and thus, as local services, reliability/punctuality dips.

I was returning to Preston on Saturday from home and was stood at Smethwick Galton Bridge. My Central for Wolves was timetabled to arrive at 1415 but did not arrive til 1419 due to two Voyager services - one 5-car to Edinburgh (late) and one 5+4 to Manchester Piccadilly (late) - passing before it was allowed to arrive.

Remember the comments about the old Cross-Country route being Cinderella by operating in so many regions but having timetable priority in none of them? To an extent, Central have suffered from this.

I remember back in the day just after the railways were privatised and Central were operating what were (I think) Class 101 units. They were crap. Heritage, yes, but crap. Over time they've gradually increased their 150 fleet, and refurbished all of them to be at least worthy of a commuter service. All the old units are gone now, replaced with second-gen Sprinters and Turbostars.

Other than that, look at the stations - all stations on the Midlands network are being upgraded to have real-time information boards. Funded by Centro, yes, but still a stark improvement.

I think it's very easy to knock a company like Central because their statistics appear down every time one looks at them; but when you consider the crap that they deal with - oft-breaking infrastructure due to congestion; heavy freight traffic breaking down; difficult competitors; etc. then I think it becomes apparent that since privatisation, Central have been one of the best.

I will miss the now-(in)famous lime green and blue livery, but I daresay I'm looking forward to the introduction of London Midland onto the Snow Hill Lines - even if it's just to see what they do with the PPM60s they've just ordered.

[Ameecher]

"that s*** where Gavin lives"

is actually on the Norwich to Liverpool Citilink service, that's the only Central service that gets out this way, the rest is all 'one' so har har har

[Bad Hair Day]

Currently the only Central service running through my village is the Ivanhoe, operated by 156s, 158s, and occassionaly 170s. I use it to get into Loughborough or Leicester as it's cheaper, faster, more reliable and less crowded than the buses.

Over all, I find they're helpful and rarely late. Very pleased with them.

[JamieLei]

Sadly Central hardly got a mention at all on the Cross-City line, as all the trains were painted up in Centro livery - on the Snow Hill lines at least, they got some lovely vynelling up in lime-green and blue, although some of them went back to NWM branding. I just wonder what London Midland will do with the Centro branding

[Dave]

I believe they're working together to create a livery that is similar, which may have alreayd been applied. Since NWM is sky blue, I imagine it will retain the livery, whilst matching London Midland in terms of the silver ends the NWM livery has.

[Kevo00]

Of course if I'm not mistaken where Dave is is given huge wodges of cash by Centro. I don't venture to the Central kind of area much, but if its anything like SPT/Scotrail you really can't compare a PTE sponsored network to the rest of a TOC, as it is often like night and day!

[Dave]

Of course if I'm not mistaken where Dave is is given huge wodges of cash by Centro. I don't venture to the Central kind of area much, but if its anything like SPT/Scotrail you really can't compare a PTE sponsored network to the rest of a TOC, as it is often like night and day!

But I'm talking about the wider Central area - not just Centro. I've travelled Central regularly to a lot of non-Centro areas - and Central are still very impressive.

On the Snow Hill Lines, the Centro to non-Centro services aren't all that different.

There are 4-6tph as I said. One of these terminates at Stourbridge Junction which is the limit of the Centro area; this leaves 3-5tph going onwards to non-Centro areas.

Yes Centro help the Midland lines a lot, but they don't help on other lines, where Central have proven to be just as effective.

[Parkey]

Have you perchance ever travelled to Nottingham by Central Trains Dave? If you still have knees I'm guessing you haven't.

I will be glad when the Birmingham-Nottingham route transfers to Cross-Country. Then hopefully we'll see some Voyagers on the route. It's definately needed twice the number of carriages for years now.

[Dave]

I have - coping with the rolling stock they have.

ATW do far worse on Aber-New Street runs.

[Parkey]

The turbostars on the Nottingham route would be nice trains but for the fact that there is no legroom and the carriages are always jam-packed with people. My girlfriend complains about the seats being too close together and she's 5'3". I just fail to understand why that route has never had extra carriages added to it. Given the load factor it would be hard to run that service at a loss and the suppressed demand would mean that there's even more money to be made by leasing more stock and improving the capacity. It's not like there are infrastructure constraints when the existing trains are only 2 carriages.

I went on a Scotrail turbostar at Easter and at first I didn't even recognise it as the same class. They look and feel very different inside when there's room to flex your knees and the lack of people standing up the aisle means you can see the floor.

[Ameecher]

I went on a Scotrail turbostar at Easter and at first I didn't even recognise it as the same class. They look and feel very different inside when there's room to flex your knees and the lack of people standing up the aisle means you can see the floor.

They are a different class of 170. Central use 170/5s (2 car), /6s (3 car), 170/1s (ex-MML) and some /3s hired from Porterbrook. FSR use 170/4s.

Do you lot never tire of bashing every TOC in existence? They do their best with what they have, they can't miraculously increase capacity overnight, Central have the particular problem of having their network centred around the Midlands. We all know what New Street is like, one thing goes wrong and the consequences can be felt all over the country. Then there is the problem that Citilink services will never get priority over Virgin or GNER services, particularily the Norwich to Liverpool which has to travel along the ECML between Grantham and Peterborough and cross the WCML. Central can't win, the faster "more important" services will always be signalled ahead of the slower 158/170s. At times trains can sit in the platform at Grantham or Peterborough for up to 10 minutes to gain a path along the ECML.
Then there is the nasty bit between Sheffield and Manchester, somehow this service has to be fitted into the very busy Hope Valley schedule without upsetting the stopping passenger timetable and all the freight on this line. It's hardly Central's fault!

[JamieLei]

I will be glad when the Birmingham-Nottingham route transfers to Cross-Country. Then hopefully we'll see some Voyagers on the route. It's definately needed twice the number of carriages for years now.

The route will remain as Turbostars, except I think 1 Voyager from (Bristol/Reading?) (per day/week) which will goto Nottingham. Can't remember the details exactly but at least one Voyager per week will go to Nottingham! That's for sure.

[Parkey]

I've just looked at their 2009 consultation timetable. Basically the trains and the timetables are hardly changing at all on the Nottingham-Birmingham route. Will be a single Voyager from Nottingham to Bournemouth leaving Nottingham at about 6:30am, but there won't be one running the other way. This surprises me as I was expecting something more like 3 trains a day.

All in all very disappointing. If this is the final timetable it looks like FGW, TfL and EMT will be getting my money instead if I'm going to Nottingham. Needless to say I will be writing to Arriva with some polite suggestions...

[Kevo00]

Trouble is there is no incentive to lease new stock when the present one rakes in the cash at minimum cost already. Why bother taking the risk on the diesel for another 170 when it will only get the same amount of people in? Such is the problem with the present system in general - this disincentive is what creates a lot of the overcrowding we have.

Never saw the attraction in 170s for TOCs anyway - although they are a nice train, and I like them as a passenger, they are crazy in terms of revenue protection as if 170s work in multiple the conductor and trolley is trapped in one train between stations, or worse yet you need to duplicate conductor and catering like Virgin XC running in multiple...

[Dave]

Trouble is there is no incentive to lease new stock when the present one rakes in the cash at minimum cost already. Why bother taking the risk on the diesel for another 170 when it will only get the same amount of people in? Such is the problem with the present system in general - this disincentive is what creates a lot of the overcrowding we have.

Never saw the attraction in 170s for TOCs anyway - although they are a nice train, and I like them as a passenger, they are crazy in terms of revenue protection as if 170s work in multiple the conductor and trolley is trapped in one train between stations, or worse yet you need to duplicate conductor and catering like Virgin XC running in multiple...

Although 220-221 formations are a lot easier to handle merely because they're used when they're required - they'll always be full so the double staff measure will be necessary; as I recall, there are more staff on one Pendolino than there are on a 220-221 formation - 4 plus driver on the Voyagers, 5 (at least) plus driver on Pendolinos...