Sydney to trial 115 passenger articulated buses.

[MHTransport]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/all ... 96845.html

But does it really count if every one has to stand?

[Ameecher]

They've got those in Leeds (?) and York and they look absolutely terrible. For some reason they want to create the illusion of a tram when it is blatantly obvious that it is a bus...

[Parkey]

I used to ride on bendy buses occasionaly when I was at uni in Southampton. They were alright, but double deckers seem a lot less clumsy.

[andel]

But they also have some green credentials... dunno what!

[Parkey]

But they also have some green credentials... dunno what!

Green? It looks purple to me.

[patter]

But they also have some green credentials... dunno what!

Well, its a bus

They're also very http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/14 ... _reattack/
dangerous http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/25 ... us_attack/

[lws1984]

An Open Letter to the City of Sydney


Greetings, people of Sydney. Nice place you've got there, I've been a few times. If anyone finds a Saab keyring with a dark-green painted key labeled "Office Cabinet," could you please send it my way?

Anyway, I'm writing today to wish you luck with your bendy-bus program. They're really not that bad of a vehicle. As long as they, you know, don't catch on fire. Here are some tips to make the best of your bendy-bus experience:

1. Don't sit in the front section. The driver's up there, and it's all boring up there anyway. Make sure that everybody squeezes in the back, like we do in Boston. That way, most of the weight is closer to the engine, and you get better fuel efficency!

2. By now, you're probably used to One Person Operation of buses, so this is most likely redundant. It bears repeating, though. Never have your form of payment ready before you step onto the bus, otherwise some meanie on the streets might walk by and grab your fare.

3. Please wear deodorant and take a shower before commuting to work on a bendy-bus. To improve fuel efficency, airflow is not what it used to be in buses, and due to air conditioning, windows are often sealed closed. Please, for the love of <insert deity here>, keep yourself non-smelly!

4. This one's for government officials. If someone protests about the bendy-buses, just ignore them.

5. Get some better-looking buses, for <insert more powerful deity here>'s sake! The purple one up there looks like a bendy dildo meant to be used by two people! Even painting it a less bright/eye-catching colour would fix it..

Best of luck, Sydney Transportation Department. The riders don't need luck, they just need to come around that bendy buses are better, even though they've supposedly been proven less reliable.

Sincerely,
Lewis McIntosh
Former bendy-bus user, London and Boston

[Parkey]

What they really need is a cab on each end and rear-wheel steering

[Kevo00]

Cool bus. I like bthe London bendy busses. They carry a lot of people and can load faster than a double decker. The only problem is that some people are dishonest and get on at the back without validating their Oyster card.

[Raichase]

We've plenty of Bendy buses on the North Shore, they've taken almost all of the old Mercedes Articulated buses (from the 70's) out of service and sold them to private bus companies, and purchased an all new fleet of modern Volvo Articulated buses. Nothing new there. These new buses want everyone to stand, as they can fit way more people on them, which is a stupid idea. Why would people catch public transport knowing there it's unlikely they will get a seat. A crowded train or bus is different, people stand sometimes, sometimes sit. It's luck. But who would willingly get on a bus with very few seats? I'd get a cab or drive.

[Pug]

Where I live, in Nijmegen, we have a couple of likewise buses. In my opinion they are great. You can easily get 115 people in, in rush hour even more if you have to. It saves a lot of space on the road, and you can get in and out relatively fast.

You just have to remember that they are city-buses. The maximum time you will be in one will be around 15 minutes. They are meant for short, but busy lines. That is why it should not be such a big deal to stand in them. Just be happy that you can get on a bus in the first place.

For longer distances, outside the city center, you still have your coaches with enough seats.

[MHTransport]

[quote="Pug"]You just have to remember that they are city-buses. The maximum time you will be in one will be around 15 minutes. They are meant for short, but busy lines. That is why it should not be such a big deal to stand in them. [/quote]

You really don't know Sydney.

Some of the bus routes these will end up on are 1hr to 1.5hr. Most commutes are at least 30min as few people can afford to live closer to the CBD.

Heck Newtown which is a couple of Km from the CBD is at least 20 min by bus or by train in peak hour.

[Pug]

Okay, I should have realised Sydney is way bigger than Nijmegen. Did not stop and think about that. But if you use those buses travel times will shorten (only a bit). With more passengers on less road space.
Furthermore, what is wrong with standing? I know I do not mind it one bit. Usually I am just happy to get on the bus in the first place.

And let us compare these new buses to double deckers. You can load and unload much faster, therefore move along faster. This will shorten travel times as well.

All in all I think the new buses will improve the situation and allow more people to travel by bus.

[Raichase]

Okay, I should have realised Sydney is way bigger than Nijmegen. Did not stop and think about that. But if you use those buses travel times will shorten (only a bit). With more passengers on less road space.
Furthermore, what is wrong with standing? I know I do not mind it one bit. Usually I am just happy to get on the bus in the first place.

Most of Sydney doesn't have this problem - our buses can get crowded, but if it's too full to ride, normally there is another in a very short space of time with far fewer people on it.

And let us compare these new buses to double deckers. You can load and unload much faster, therefore move along faster. This will shorten travel times as well.

We don't use double-decker buses here, too many low bridges and tunnels (and that monorail thing running around the CBD)

All in all I think the new buses will improve the situation and allow more people to travel by bus.

Again, it's a Sydney thing. People will drive because the government spends a good chunk of money on massive freeway motorway roads that go everywhere and anywhere. People like to sit down to get to work - Sydney is a very "personal space" kind of city. We have unchecked urban sprawl, because everyone wants a block of land with a house - nobody likes units. Sydney is the same size as London or Paris, yet with about a quarter or less the density of people. Thats why bus/train travel takes so long, because you have many km's of houses to go past. We're literally running out of room, being bounded by mountains/hills/cliffs on three sides, and the ocean on the fourth.

Everyone likes their personal space, and lots of people won't share the seat next to them on a bus. About 5-10% of passengers I see, even in peak hour, sit on the isle seat of a bus/train, even when people start sitting next to other people. People will stand, and even then some people won't move over and share their seat. Mostly people from very densly populated countries like China/Japan that do this, as they have discovered personal space, and take too much, coming from a background of jam-packed buses/trains.

People will loathe to give up their cars for these buses, I know I would, if I drove. I would drive if I got told I had to stand up 30 minutes each way to and from work each day, as well as stand up for an eight hour shift.

The only place these buses MAY work is inner city, from points of the CBD. Outside of the CBD, travel time won't allow it. Plus all the stop/start of traffic means nobody will be able to stand up, least of all the elderly or the ignorant.

[Parkey]

As I see it the trouble with Buses is that they use the road. If you're going to move at the same speeds down the same streets in a bus why not just drive instead. That way you don't have to walk to the bus stop and wait for one to show up. Whether it's double decker, articulated, LPG, trolley, fuel-cell, a bus is still a bus, and it just doesn't have the same ability to get motorists out of their cars that a tram or commuter rail system has.

Is there a congestion charging scheme in place of planned for Sydney?

[Raichase]

As I see it the trouble with Buses is that they use the road. If you're going to move at the same speeds down the same streets in a bus why not just drive instead.

Especially on places like The Harbour Bridge, buses have their own lanes. So everyone is isn't moving, but the bus can still move. Plus, if you sit on abus, you can read the paper and whatnot - thats one of the biggest advantages in Sydney, is not having the stress of driving for an hour in traffic. Bus can take the same amount of time, with less stress.

That way you don't have to walk to the bus stop and wait for one to show up. Whether it's double decker, articulated, LPG, trolley, fuel-cell, a bus is still a bus, and it just doesn't have the same ability to get motorists out of their cars that a tram or commuter rail system has.

Ah, but due to the sheer urban sprawl in Sydney, a lot of regular buses feed train stations. Trains in Sydney don't attract as many people as you'd think, because there is very little density. A lot of stations, people catch a bus to, or drive to, and get a train from there. Plus, the buses on the Northern Beaches are quite well used, becuase they are well maintained, clean and a good group of people drive said buses.

Is there a congestion charging scheme in place of planned for Sydney?

Nope.

[MHTransport]

[quote="Raichase"]Especially on places like The Harbour Bridge, buses have their own lanes. So everyone is isn't moving, but the bus can still move. Plus, if you sit on abus, you can read the paper and whatnot - thats one of the biggest advantages in Sydney, is not having the stress of driving for an hour in traffic. Bus can take the same amount of time, with less stress.[/quote]

I have caught a bus using the bus lanes and got to the city in ten minutes; laughing to myself as I passed the 1Km queue of cars for the toll booths.

When they built the Lane Cove Tunnel (the useful tunnel) the state government committed to a bus lane the entire length of the Gore Hill/Warringa & M2 freeways, and all through Lane Cove. Then they got some bad press and chickened out.


Incompetent, Cowardly, and a Waste of Money; that's our state Government, and the oppositions just as bad.

[OC_4106]

Here in Ottawa, we are having so much trouble with our articulated buses that we are buying some double decker's so the articulated buses aren't needed as much.

We have had so much problems with the articulated buses that they overheat, have like no suspension and they get stuck in a tiny bit of snow.

The Double Decker demo we had outperformed them but we still have to keep the Articulated buses for high ridership routes because even though the double decker's sit more then the articulated buses, they don't hold more then articulated buses. (Standee wise) This is mostly cause no standees are allowed to stand on the top deck while the bus is taking off from a stop (though I think it could be possible).

Just a note: Our double decker's are built to North American Standard and they are about a foot shorter then the European double decker's. This makes them as tall as a Semi Tractor Trailer which makes the double decker clear all bridges.

[Kevo00]

In the UK standees are never allowed on the top deck, although it happens in London occasionally.

[OC_4106]

In the UK standees are never allowed on the top deck, although it happens in London occasionally.

Ah, well I remember reading somewhere that in Berlin, Germany they allow standees on the top deck on their double decker's.