Copy & Paste AND signal auto completion, together?

slickgoku · Post by **slickgoku** » 05 Jul 2007 02:54

Hello all, a long time back (with the MiniNs) I am pretty sure it was once possible to copy and paste areas of track as well as using the auto complete feature for signals and was wondering if it was possible still with the newer versions of the nightly's? I found patches for both of these features but when I tried them together, OTTD got unstable

.

l_Blue_l · Post by **l_Blue_l** » 05 Jul 2007 06:40

i believe that auto complete feature for signals is in trunk and you use Ctrl for auto complete.

MJS · Post by **MJS** » 05 Jul 2007 09:35

You just drag to autocomplete, without pressing CTRL.

Tom0004 · Post by **Tom0004** » 05 Jul 2007 09:57

and there a GRF, for the Copy and paste function, some where in the devlopment section, for the nightlys

MJS wrote:You just drag to autocomplete, without pressing CTRL.

nope you need to press CTRL in the nightly release ! as far as i'm aware

osai · Post by **osai** » 05 Jul 2007 13:25

correct...
I wrote a little manual: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/Signalling

Personally I never ever want to see the Copy & Paste Patch in the trunk, it destroys all the building skills a player must have and all you do is to click some templates. Sounds like no-clip mode in Ego Shooters to me.

MJS · Post by **MJS** » 05 Jul 2007 13:48

0004tom wrote:nope you need to press CTRL in the nightly release ! as far as i'm aware

The page osai refers to says the same, but if I press CTRL while dragging, the first signal just changes from a lamp signal to a semaphore (it's 1990 by now). Maybe that's a peculiarity of having semaphores enabled? What does it do if one of you doesn't press CTRL?

Tom0004 · Post by **Tom0004** » 05 Jul 2007 13:53

MJS wrote:
0004tom wrote:nope you need to press CTRL in the nightly release ! as far as i'm aware
The page osai refers to says the same, but if I press CTRL while dragging, the first signal just changes from a lamp signal to a semaphore (it's 1990 by now). Maybe that's a peculiarity of having semaphores enabled? What does it do if one of you doesn't press CTRL?

ifi don't press CTRL, it will only paste the signals to as far as i move the pointer.

if i press CTRL, before i click on the signal then move the pointer a square, then the full line i want signaling as been signaled.

you have to press CTRL, then click, while still holding the click, the signal will not become a pre-signal nor a semaphore. then move the pointer you want the signails placed and release the click

also found that pre-signals arn't copied, yet normal signals are placed instead

Bartjeh · Post by **Bartjeh** » 05 Jul 2007 13:54

first click and draw a bit, then hit ctrL?

edit
____

you beat me to it.

Post by **peter1138** » 05 Jul 2007 14:05

MJS wrote:but if I press CTRL while dragging, the first signal just changes from a lamp signal to a semaphore (it's 1990 by now).

That happens because you are using a build before r10437...

osai · Post by **osai** » 05 Jul 2007 16:12

0004tom wrote:
MJS wrote:
0004tom wrote: also found that pre-signals arn't copied, yet normal signals are placed instead

There is no reason to copy pre-signals, they are only needed at junctions, station entrances and exits or for weird constructions. Those places shouldn't be auto-signalled anyway... might tend to massive jams

slickgoku · Post by **slickgoku** » 05 Jul 2007 17:03

Thanks for the responses guys, unfortunately, the copy and paste patch that I found removes the auto completion in the 10429, maybe there is another copy/paste that will work better somewhere?

rav · Post by **rav** » 05 Jul 2007 18:35

use the Chris Integrated (ChrisIN) version, it has both auto completion and copy/paste

you can find it in the development forums!

maartena · Post by **maartena** » 05 Jul 2007 19:48

osai wrote:correct...
I wrote a little manual: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/Signalling

Personally I never ever want to see the Copy & Paste Patch in the trunk, it destroys all the building skills a player must have and all you do is to click some templates. Sounds like no-clip mode in Ego Shooters to me.

I would love it. I have GOT the building skills already, and know what I am doing. Besides, it should not come with templates, you should create your own.

I would love to be able to copy/paste my default depot setup. Copy/paste is going to really help me with RSI prevention!

Double P · Post by **Double P** » 05 Jul 2007 20:29

Well, this copy&paste patch is surely a thing controversy.
I totally agree with marteena, everyone should build their own templates, not just copy or use someone else's template or design.
Some says that using copy&paste makes every junction look same and the player won't continue to develop his building skills.
- To build every junction on the map to look same can do without copy&paste, it is only the matter of the players taste - someone likes this way, someone likes the other way
- As for developing the building skills - that depends on the player. When building on smaller maps, I rarely use copy&paste, only for some mergings. But on larger maps it is very useful when you are building the same station for the 30th time.
Almost every my design has some faults and as more I look at them, they hurt my eyes more and more. In the end I redesign them or build completely new templates. So my templates alway evolute
My opinion is that this tool will be the most useful to the "advanced" players (those who knows what was the feeling to replace a map-length diagonal track in the old TTD).
As for the newbies I suggest to avoid this patch. When you build a station or junction you will better understand it (and you will learn much faster) if you do it manually than using the copy&paste.
And one more thing: I suggest to Frostregen (who is keeping this patch alive) to disable copying tracks from other competitors (i.e. other players) from multiplayer games.

Frostregen · Post by **Frostregen** » 05 Jul 2007 21:24

@Double P:
Currently Multiplayer is not really about competition.
It is more like:
Let's see how other players build their networks, and have some fun together.

Personally i like it, when I could help someone with a specific layout, and to see it is used by him.

If you play for competition, you would not use an untested layout from someone anyway.

Just my opinion.

(Copy&Paste is completely clientside. this is why unpatched&patched builds work together in multiplayer. So it would be easy to remove this limitation anyway)

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 05 Jul 2007 23:29

Double P wrote:Well, this copy&paste patch is surely a thing controversy.
I totally agree with marteena, everyone should build their own templates, not just copy or use someone else's template or design.
Some says that using copy&paste makes every junction look same and the player won't continue to develop his building skills.
- To build every junction on the map to look same can do without copy&paste, it is only the matter of the players taste - someone likes this way, someone likes the other way
- As for developing the building skills - that depends on the player. When building on smaller maps, I rarely use copy&paste, only for some mergings. But on larger maps it is very useful when you are building the same station for the 30th time.
Almost every my design has some faults and as more I look at them, they hurt my eyes more and more. In the end I redesign them or build completely new templates. So my templates alway evolute
My opinion is that this tool will be the most useful to the "advanced" players (those who knows what was the feeling to replace a map-length diagonal track in the old TTD).
As for the newbies I suggest to avoid this patch. When you build a station or junction you will better understand it (and you will learn much faster) if you do it manually than using the copy&paste.
And one more thing: I suggest to Frostregen (who is keeping this patch alive) to disable copying tracks from other competitors (i.e. other players) from multiplayer games.

Copying design without understanding how they work and how and WHEN to use them will not help you. I have developed myself few design (few station templates like 8x8 ro-ro, 12x16, 4x8 .... ), some tunnels, junctions ... Though I use some parts from somewhere else (mainline hub copied from openttdcoop savegame, priority line merge I saw somewhere ... )

I designed a mammoth drop+pickup station for very high traffic with 3 separate exits and 3 separate entrances and two 15x15 stations inside, but the resulting thing is about 50x70 squares large and its problem to fit it somewhere due to many obstacles. But some templates (like template for service center that provides two depots on sides of a line) are very useful and can save a lot of work .... paste it five times along the track and off you go

slickgoku · Post by **slickgoku** » 06 Jul 2007 02:03

Bilbo wrote: But some templates (like template for service center that provides two depots on sides of a line) are very useful and can save a lot of work .... paste it five times along the track and off you go

Exactly what I use it for, things that you use multiple times in a large network (hubs, stations, and depot centers). Makes it easy and I don't have to make the same hub half of the time, sure in some places I have to build a hub around a city or an industry but when it's open no reason why to rebuild it!

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 06 Jul 2007 02:49

slickgoku wrote:
Bilbo wrote: But some templates (like template for service center that provides two depots on sides of a line) are very useful and can save a lot of work .... paste it five times along the track and off you go
Exactly what I use it for, things that you use multiple times in a large network (hubs, stations, and depot centers). Makes it easy and I don't have to make the same hub half of the time, sure in some places I have to build a hub around a city or an industry but when it's open no reason why to rebuild it!

Well, even when there is not place for the hub, I paste it and then somehow solve the parts that don't fit ... still faster than building from scratch

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Copy & Paste AND signal auto completion, together?

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