Station Walking Abuse

[Boomer]

"Please, if you find something that you think is a bug, and you can't find anything else about it, post it on the Bug Tracker, so that the developers can find it easily and hopefully fix it! It is okay to ask your questions here, but bugs need to go SourceForge so the developers don't miss it. "

Fine, I added a comment to a bug that was reported after watching it in a game:

http://bugs.openttd.org/task/373

Someone comes along and closes it without reading and understanding the damn bug ...

Yes, you can walk stations ... I *know* you can walk stations. However, if you do it right, you can keep the station sign at the very first point you placed the station, regardless of how far you walk the station.

Doing so allows you to move a station across an entire 1024 map to the other corner, plop another station a few tiles away and generate hundreds of thousands on trains that only move a few tiles.

If that's how it's supposed to work, fine, I'll come to your server and do it every game!

[DeletedUser21]

How do you do that then? I only manage to keep the station sign inbetween somewhere.

[Boomer]

I'm working on example images. It's quite easy actually and easier to explain now that I'm trying to do it after seeing it a few times.

Place a long train station ... In my config setup for 12 max spread, so I use a 7 long and 5 long station back to back for a 12x1 long station.

Now, click the station icon again and then the remove icon and you can delete a square at a time from one end. When you have one left, extend from the end till you're at max station spread again and repeat.

You can "walk" the station, but the sign stays where it was.

If you walk it across the map, then place another right next to it, anything moved between them generate revenue based on where the station sign is, not where the station actually is now.

I've attached a starting image with Example Station and an ending image with the station sign in the lower left and the station moved up near the city. That took about 2 minutes ... you can move it across the map pretty quickly.

In the game I saw it abused, a train of lumber from a mill to a factory a few tiles away would generate 300k.

[DeletedUser21]

Aaah like that! Nifty... Good find!

I don't know if people already started work on it however, but it seems to me too as a bug.

[Invisble]

Oh man I never realised that you could do that, that is a nifty bug, but also one for cheaters.

The only way that I can think of defeating it is a system where every time you attach a new station it re-calculates where the center of the station is and then place the station sign over that spot.

Though of course the same cheat can be used to create two tracks at opposite ends of the map sharing a station name.

I suppose to get around that the only way I can think of is if as well as calculating the center of the station, it also checks to see if the stations are within each others station spread. If not the stations automatically get renamed (or maybe it should limit the distance between platforms/stops to just two squares, and any distance over that automatically renames the stops/platforms into seperate stations).

However I am no programmer, so don't look at me to do it.

[Boomer]

Aaah like that! Nifty... Good find!

I don't know if people already started work on it however, but it seems to me too as a bug.

It was closed as "Not a bug."

"This is how the feature is supposed to work, it's called station-walking" by Tamas Farago (Darkvater).

So, no, it's not going to be fixed.

I requested that it be reopened twice and he denied both, so it's there to stay unless someone else cares to appeal it.

[Sacro]

Isn't this what the Station Spread setting is for?

[Boomer]

Isn't this what the Station Spread setting is for?

No. Station spread limits how far you can build it initially ... however, you get around station spread by removing the "back" end of the station as you move it.

My instructions above spell out exactly how to do this and mention the spread setting I was using.

[XeryusTC]

Alredy known and used.
And why don't you fix it yourself if you want it to be fixed it so badly, it's open source you know...

[Darkvater]

Someone comes along and closes it without reading and understanding the damn bug ...

Good job calling (one of) the lead developers of OpenTTD 'someone' and 'without reading' and 'understanding'... really makes you look smart

[Boomer]

Someone comes along and closes it without reading and understanding the damn bug ...

Good job calling (one of) the lead developers of OpenTTD 'someone' and 'without reading' and 'understanding'... really makes you look smart

You closed it.

If that's how it supposed to work, as you say, fine.

(You really think I didn't look at the Forum and figure out who you were before posting??)

[Boomer]

Alredy known and used.
And why don't you fix it yourself if you want it to be fixed it so badly, it's open source you know...

I don't want it fixed so badly ... that wasn't really the point.

The point was a valid bug was added to the bug tracking system and closed by a "lead developer" stating that it wasn't a bug, it was intended.

I have no interest in adding any code to the mix at this point.

[DaleStan]

What part of "Not a bug" are you not understanding?

[Boomer]

What part of "Not a bug" are you not understanding?

Ok, I get it. Not a bug.

[Darkvater]

You see, this is the whole point of station walking. To "fix" we need to rework the whole station concept together with catchment area. But the station-walking does work as intended.

[Ailure]

The only way that I can think of defeating it is a system where every time you attach a new station it re-calculates where the center of the station is and then place the station sign over that spot.

Wouldn't it be better putting it at the northest spot considering that's the orginal TT behavir?

A way to fix this would probably be not allowing gaps in stations. So the whole station would have to be connected or else it's two diffrent stations (and this would make the newstation more than for looks too ironically). And then it would have to recalculate the damn station sign for every time you add or remove something to the station. I'm not saying it's easy to program, though it might be something I look into. (especially after seeing station walking over distances that is huge enough for a line of it's own )

I have a idea how it would be implented codewise, but I can't promise anything due to my rather steep schedule. And it might wind up being too hackish too...

[sc79]

I dont quite get the jump from 'station walking works as intended', to 'station name/source tile being totally independent of the physical station, allowing an exploit for unlimited cash in multiplayer games, isnt a bug'.

Is it really the case that walking a station 100s of squares away to create an unlimited supply of cash was an intentionally programmed in? What practical use is there for walking a station to a point away from its name?

[Invisble]

If you take a look at the screenshots and the savegame I believe that this is what boomer is worried about.


Note: If you remove the platform near the power station you cannot deliver coal.

Note 2: For this to work you have to stay within the station spread (in this case 30 squares)

Note 3: done with nightly r7031

Note 4: No newgrf's are required either, I disabled them before hand.

[Dave]

If you are that pathetic to cheat on a game that's pretty much impossible to lose on (especially the way you "bigger-is-better" muppets play), then you really are quite sad.

I say play as you would in real life. Developing what you can do instead of what you want to do.

[goldberg]

> A way to fix this would probably be not allowing gaps in stations.
thats not a solution. you can still build a bus stop next to come-from-a-long-distance bus stop, and earn gazillion$ transporting passengers.

but still, this is intended, as The Smart Looking Developer says...