Production of oil-wells and -rigs in Temperate

General B. · Post by **General B.** » 06 Apr 2004 20:29

It's me again,

in every game I play in temperate climate and hundreds of (in-game-)years with TTD-Patch, each oil-well decreases its efficience over some years down to a production of 24.000 litres and then (if this option is activated, what I do) closes down. The oil-rigs show the same "behaviour". They NEVER increase efficience / production. In classic TTD it wasn't like that.

I do like the tank trucks and the new goods-wagons for chemical products so I appreciate transporting oil and the concerning goods. But if every oil-well only produces 24.000 litres, its not worth the time for building tracks or streets.

I read in a thread ( http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... hlight=oil )
that there is a certain factor for each kind of industry. Could you fix that issue in later TTD-Patch versions? Please don't say that I have to use TTD-Alter in order to fix it by myself :-/ (despite it would be a possibility).

By the way: In Arctic-climate it seems to work better (as I have it in mind).

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 06 Apr 2004 20:47

Temperate oil wells are the only industries which have special code in TTD that prevents them from increasing production. This is obviously not a bug in TTD but the intended behaviour.

Unlike other industries, which have a certain fixed probability to increase or decrease production, temperate oil wells will always decrease their production. It's been like that since the first version of TTD.

The patch changes none of that code, other than preventing industries from closing down if "stable economy" is selected in the difficulty settings and you have "stableindustries on" in ttdpatch.cfg.

General B. · Post by **General B.** » 07 Apr 2004 07:26

Do you have any idea why it was set like this? I mean, if the intention was to simulate the later shortage of oil because it's a limited natural resource, then it should be the same thing than coal and iron-ore. But in some games I had coal- and iron-ore mines with up to 1,000 tons of production.

Andrex · Post by **Andrex** » 07 Apr 2004 08:31

General B. wrote:I mean, if the intention was to simulate the later shortage of oil because it's a limited natural resource, then it should be the same thing than coal and iron-ore.

I couldn't agree more. Absolutely correct.

The problem is that production uses to me miserable from the beginning. The initial prodution should be multiplied *100 by the patch and then let the game decrease it gradually as normal, until year 2070 or something.

cornelius · Post by **cornelius** » 07 Apr 2004 08:50

Oil is a handy thing to transport, though, because it holds its value well over time. It's up to the player to decide if they want to put the investment in for a good, but short-term, income from oil wells.

Having said that, I haven't had any problems with oil rigs increasing production with the patch - I've had rigs with 500,000 litres a month or more production quite often.

General B. · Post by **General B.** » 07 Apr 2004 10:59

cornelius wrote:Oil is a handy thing to transport, though, because it holds its value well over time. It's up to the player to decide if they want to put the investment in for a good, but short-term, income from oil wells.

Having said that, I haven't had any problems with oil rigs increasing production with the patch - I've had rigs with 500,000 litres a month or more production quite often.

Woah, my best rigs produce 108,000 litres and then most of them constantly drop by 50% down to 24,000 in 2-3 years.

In my games it seems to be unfair to me because in the majority of my transport cases after 6 months I got oil from a well, it decreased its production by 50% until it shut down. Thats a really short-term income...

I've got no problem with industries which are going up and down over the years or stay longer down and then sometimes got up but this does not make any fun.

So I began to load my savegame in the editor and added some oil-wells to my station in order to supply my refinery half the screen away. But this I have to do all 10 years again (this time I got more time because I now have more wells besides the station. Or I try to use TTD-Alter.

Mmmpf. Not the best solutions at all in my eyes. Let's wait and see what time will tell.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 07 Apr 2004 11:53

notice that patchman didnt say this special code applied to oil rigs aswell. I have had several rigs which have increased production a couple of times, and they become fairly profitable, but not huge amounts of money though!

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 07 Apr 2004 11:56

Heh, each my oil ship makes atleast 12,000$ per trip..makes my profit graph jump a bit when the ships go to the docks

General B. · Post by **General B.** » 07 Apr 2004 13:20

In my game oil rigs are really rare because I don't have much water. In my actual game (1964) I will have to wait for these buildings. If built, I will give them a chance

Thanks so long.

Stylesjl · Post by **Stylesjl** » 11 Apr 2004 12:42

don't oil rigs start appearing at a certain year?

gryvix · Post by **gryvix** » 12 Apr 2004 06:20

in my game the oilrigs don't appear at all

the oilwells stay at 30000 liters and it's 2020 now...

General B. · Post by **General B.** » 12 Apr 2004 11:33

In my actual game Oil-rigs appeared in the end of 80's (you must have enough water on the map's edges). Up to now its production stays at 120,000 litres per month but its so damn far away from my goods producing refinery...

I tried to use TTDAlter in order to increase the oil-wells' production (up to 800,000 litres I did), but if it decreases by 50% every 2 months, it even doesn't make sense (and no fun either).

Unfortunately I have no deep knowledge of programming but I surely would change that factor for the oil-wells. PLEASE, could anyone here do so? In TT it wasn't like that.

Korenn · Post by **Korenn** » 12 Apr 2004 12:23

General B. wrote:In my actual game Oil-rigs appeared in the end of 80's (you must have enough water on the map's edges). Up to now its production stays at 120,000 litres per month but its so damn far away from my goods producing refinery...

isn't that what you WANT? more distance means more money

General B. · Post by **General B.** » 12 Apr 2004 13:34

Yes, thats what I want. But not now any more, since I built hundreds of other railroads, streets and stations. Now it is nearly impossible to get there or needs a nice amount of work, especially with ships (which may take several months to get there). And why trains are so difficult, I described in the beginning.

But nevertheless - I vote for changing that oil-well factor back to the TT-Standard.

SirkoZ · Post by **SirkoZ** » 31 Jul 2006 15:58

I have no will to read through all the posts - but here's how it should be (as it was in TTD - mind you this means the normal, TTD-economy, not smooth_economy):
IF we have Steady Economy (Difficulty Settings), then ALL primary/source industries (with production), including oil wells can increase production.

IF on the other hand economy is Fluctuating, then primary/source industries (with production) industries can close (if production gets to 24/30 or 32/40 tonnes per month --> production_rate of 2, 3 or 4) and also oil wells only_decrease production.

I think that is a very nice behaviour.

S/Z

P.S.:
Just for those, who think it's not possible to get above the default production_levels (80/88/120) - having station raitings (with that percent_transported) over 60%, you double the chance of increase of production, otherwise it's either 33% that it increases or plainly decreases.

P.P.S.: I have quite some time ago (with the release of 0.4.6/7 of OpenTTD) posted a bug report regarding this on the SourceForge. Darkvater (lead OTTD developer) has seen it and lead me to this topic, so no need for replies there.

Post by **Dave** » 31 Jul 2006 16:48

In Pikka's Industry set, the Oil Wells code is changed to stay constant (but never increase) until the original start time in the game, IIRC.

But it makes sense...

The original TTD economy worked like everyone has said - there's no change back to the "original behaviour" unless you put the economy on steady.

The reason people find it a problem is because the Oil Wells were coded to have production last about 30 years - 1980, which is about when the oil rigs kick off....

Of course the trouble is the Patch starts in 1930, or sometimes even 1921.. so by 1951 - 30 years still before oil rigs, there are no oil outputs.

As I said, Pikka's set fixes this so they run constant to 1950 then start decreasing as originally documented. This should run you nicely into the oil rig section of the game.

Anyhow... what's this got to do with TTDP? I thought that'd be quite easy to change in OTTD what with the Huge Economies patch or whatever it is?

Post by **PikkaBird** » 31 Jul 2006 16:55

Dave Worley wrote:In Pikka's Industry set, the Oil Wells code is changed to stay constant (but never increase) until the original start time in the game, IIRC.

Actually, they can increase production before 1950 (I think). Then they only stay steady or decline. But if you get one or two with a high output, they should last you well into the 70s or 80s.

Post by **Dave** » 31 Jul 2006 16:59

I thought you had a bug that meant that didn't happen? You fixed it then

.

SirkoZ · Post by **SirkoZ** » 31 Jul 2006 23:32

PikkaBird wrote:
Dave Worley wrote:In Pikka's Industry set, the Oil Wells code is changed to stay constant (but never increase) until the original start time in the game, IIRC.
Actually, they can increase production before 1950 (I think). Then they only stay steady or decline. But if you get one or two with a high output, they should last you well into the 70s or 80s.

No.

Post by **PikkaBird** » 01 Aug 2006 00:02

SirkoZ wrote:No.

Thankyou for that eloquent and well-researched argument.

I think I know what my own grf does...

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Production of oil-wells and -rigs in Temperate

Production of oil-wells and -rigs in Temperate

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