Extended Cargo Scheme (ECS) discussion

[George]

In that mail of yours, you wanted to remember an industry tile callback. (The acceptance callback, IIRC). Since we can't allocate extra memory while TTD is running, we'd need to prepare for storing it for every landscape tile. That results in 128 kilobytes of memory, hardly worth for the feature you want...

You mean that every tile can be an industry tile. That is right
Then let it stay as is.
How about the possibility to check the animation state of the nearby industry tile then?

[Csaboka]

That's easy to do. Maybe I can add it to the next beta, but I'm not sure. I have a lot of things to do recently.

[sonicgreyx]

I think I found a problem in the ECS. When I play with the attachments above on I cannot see the glassworks. It shows as just a few lines on the screen.

[George]

I think I found a problem in the ECS. When I play with the attachments above on I cannot see the glassworks. It shows as just a few lines on the screen.

we need a screen shot to understand what do you see.

[Heiko1980]

I don´t know if this is reportes somewhere else!

1.
The actual (?) Woods don`t accept Vehicles in my games! the old version did no problem!

2. When you build a shipbuilder (dont know the right word in english) next to a carfactory all of the steel gets to the ships, only 10 cars per month are maximum to produce! (is that intended?)

3. I'm running a petrol train - it delivers to two citys. one makes no problem! when it goes to the other city the game ALLWAYS halts when the train has stoped (don't know exactly if it unloads)!

The problem exists since several patch versions! aktually im using version 2.5.3 and the actual ECS files!

Savegame and other stuff on demand!

[DaleStan]

I3. I'm running a petrol train - it delivers to two citys. one makes no problem! when it goes to the other city the game ALLWAYS halts when the train has stoped (don't know exactly if it unloads)!

Define halt: Crash? Hang?
Produce savegame, produce crashlog (if crash), produce configs.

Always, always, always assume that savegame and configs are useful.

Be verbose. Give more information rather than less. If you say too much, the programmer can ignore some of it. If you say too little, they have to come back and ask more questions.

Eventually you will learn when they are and aren't necessary, but when in doubt, provide.

[Heiko1980]

ok - no problem

to point 3

the game does not crash! only everything is stoped and nothing happened! i have to close ttd manually (using win xp)!

i attach the files - save game follows later - have to reproduce it first!

Edit: Savegame is there! The train is in the depot near the problem city! just follow the names...

!warn! run the train - when it is in the station the game will stop!

[George]

ok - no problem
to point 3
the game does not crash! only everything is stoped and nothing happened! i have to close ttd manually (using win xp)!
i attach the files - save game follows later - have to reproduce it first!
Edit: Savegame is there! The train is in the depot near the problem city! just follow the names...
!warn! run the train - when it is in the station the game will stop!

I've removed the station and build it again - the game does not hang anymore

That is because the new station is the other station. the problematic station is the ghost station. There is a station sign, but no station tile. the game hangs when the train arrives to that ghost station

[T-pix]

what vehicle sets (except Plane Set and Long Vehicles) currently support all cargos of ECS?

[George]

what vehicle sets (except Plane Set and Long Vehicles) currently support all cargos of ECS?

None

[George]

I'd like to dig up this topic again. Currently I've finished the industry’s behavior coding for one ECS vector. It is the ECS wood vector. Before I start to do it the same way for other vectors, I'd like to discuss the result we have now.

I'd like to make a comparison to default industries.
1) Most processing industries produce some small amounts (10-40 units) of cargo even if they are not supported with materials
2) Industries change the production level every month. To prevent lots of messages, the production level change messages are not always displayed, especially for low production levels
3) The amount of stored cargo is limited (and it is different for different cargos). The default limit was 64K units. Now it is different for different production levels and varies between 1024 and 32K for the highest production level. When the limit is reached, the industry stops accepting cargo and tries to process it first. To prevent tons of "station accepts/not accepts" messages, the industry starts to accept cargo again only when 25%-50% of store place is free.
4) No cargo is processed immediately. It is stored and processed every 256 ticks. That means that processing industries have the max production a month limit now. It is between 10 and 20K units.
5) Some industries have strong requirements for incoming cargo. That means that if there is not enough cargo for processing for the current month, the industry can drop production level dramatically, even to lowest level from the highest one.
6) Sawmill cut trees if it is not supported with wood
7) Every industry should not close if it is younger than 2-4 years
8) Every industry has 4-6% chance to close down every month on the lowest production level and 8-50% to increase production. For industries in service the closedown chance is 50% smaller.
9) Some industries have non-linear grow of production level.
10) There is some amount of weight lost. For example, the factory produces 8 tons of goods from 10 tons of wood products. This ratio can be different on the different level of production
11) You need to support industry with cargo to increase production level
12) You heed to transport cargo to increase production level. If you transport less than 50% cargo, the production will go down.
13) You can get some info for the industry in the fund industry window
14) The location of the industry is widely restricted
15) Some industries may be non-flat
16) Auto-slope is controlled
17) Forest would drop down the production if the town would expand near it
...
May be I forgot something. Please test the new version and post you suggestions. You have to use the reload industries cheat for the existing games or start a new game to apply changed version correctly.

[gmyx]

May be I forgot something. Please test the new version and post you suggestions

Sure, but where to get the new files?

[George]

May be I forgot something. Please test the new version and post you suggestions

Sure, but where to get the new files?

as usual at
http://george.zernebok.net/newgrf/downloads.html

Sorry for a bug in Furniture fabric. Should be fixed now.

[Uwe]

It seems there is a bug in the windows version. Both furniture fabric and paper mill accept passengers instead of wood products.

[George]

It seems there is a bug in the windows version. Both furniture fabric and paper mill accept passengers instead of wood products.

They should accept wood products AND passengers, except the case there is too much wood products waiting. Then they should accept passengers only. If it is not this way, than there are some more bugs
try updated version

[Uwe]

Updated version (26.04.2006 18:55) seems to be even worse . Neither furniture fabric, printing works nor paper mill accept _anything_.

[George]

Updated version (26.04.2006 18:55) seems to be even worse . Neither furniture fabric, printing works nor paper mill accept _anything_.

Do you try the new game? Post you configs

[Uwe]

I still had beta 2 installed, upgrading to beta 3 solved the problem. Sorry for the confusion.

[LittleHelper]

I'd like to dig up this topic again. Currently I've finished the industry’s behavior coding for one ECS vector. It is the ECS wood vector. ...... Please test the new version and post your suggestions. ....

I just wanna report about my experiences with the new wood vector set:

1.My setup
- latest ttpatch (beta3)
- latest grfs from your website, George, esp. the new woodw
- in my newgrfw are only ecstownw, -basisw, -woodw, 4LVw, -DVehw
- i'm using my favorite european scenerio, start 1930...with cht year 1980


2.First: My compliments
This is really a great improvement for TTD to have different kind of industries to play with. The fun factor is getting higher (not only with the new graphics). Thanks to you, George and your team, for inventing, creating and working on this set.


3.Second: My actual experiences
a) No installation problems
One and half week I tried to install the ecs system, but i couldn't achieve a proper installation (right now i just wanna focus on the actual items/bugs i found) ...the installation of the grfs works without any problems. Only one short remark: It should be mentioned somewhere that the "ECSDVerhw.grf" is necessary that some type of cargo trucks/waggons are properly shown in the game. From your website I had the impression first that it relates only to the AI.

b) Appearances of industries
The new industries are nearly all available and properly named. Nice graphics... and no problem to approach them ...hehe. But...
- some old industries got wrong namings (eg the oil rigg is a Bank now, farms are power stations and iron ore mines are forests).
- I realized that I have TWO glass works(=GW) on my map, but only ONE (!) is visible. I dont know what conflict creates this problem, but this is one of the problems I had with my first installation of ECS, too. The altitude for the visible GW is 16 feet, for the non-visible GW 32 feet. May be the difference in altitude causes the problem ?!?
- I even tried the cht: ReloadIndustries... no change.

c) Cargo trucks
Here seems to be some major confusion for me. I just wanna name only some examples:
- I have two different kind of oil tankers; the capacity for one shows 56 passengers, the other one 60 goods.
- the water tanker shows "cannot remove obstacles on land - Oil"
- there are some toyland trucks (i'm not so familiar with them) available, for the fruit truck even no grf can be found.
- the lifestock truck can carry 80 goods
- i tried to load some iron ore with an iron ore hopper. As capacity it shows 60 goods ... nevertheless i tried. I went to the station, no loading, bought some other iron ore hoppers (they appear two times in the menu). Something must have changed .. now I have 5 iron ore hoppers ... 3 of them are showing capacity for iron ore...the other 2 are showing only capacity for goods.

d) Messages/Closing of industries
- I couldn't and didnt want to experience/play for a long time. But during this period (~4year) a lot of messages were coming up about the "destiny of industries" (production messages, shutting down, opening). It was quite overwhelming.
- Regarding the shut downs of existing industries (2nd tier industries eg furniture factory) only one question. To develop a proper rail/industry raw material system, it needs some time (...and money... hehe). I saw only that the furniture factory closed quite quickly. What are the guidelines that these kind of industries re-appear in a "suffient" way that the industry sets are really offering a lot of fun ?

e) Question: Other train sets
Will it be possible to use other train sets in combination with your vectors (eg the dbxl set) ?


4. Wishful thinking
Hopefully you are able to solve these "childhood illnesses" (that's how we call the "growing-up" problems), because not only me (I'm quite sure) would love to play these industry sets and get a wider transportation view within TTD. If you need further information about my config or anything else ...feel free.

LH

[T-pix]

e) Question: Other train sets
Will it be possible to use other train sets in combinatuon with your vectors (eg the dbxl set) ?

Latest version of UK Renewal Train Set supports ECS.