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 Post subject: Another PBS crash
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:19 am 
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Aplogies in advance for finding these things.

A crash between 2 trains in an area where I have done no work for a game year or so.

A67, windows version. To the right of the crash was a rubber plantation. This used to be active with a branch line to the right of the main line. I suspended the service when production lowered, and ripped out the line sometime later. I then redesigned the line slightly but apparently left a PBS signal in there.

The crash then occurred (some time later) and I paused the game to find out what happened. The only thing I can think of is when the rubber plantation was removed from the game, that lone PBS signal was reset somehow. That caused a train to enter the next block (of a very busy line) and caused a crash.

That section of line had remained untouched for a considereable time and dozens of trains must have passed that section without problems.

Unfortunately, I don't have a savegame just prior to the crash...the previous save is 2 years back.


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SCR1.jpg
SCR1.jpg [ 341.43 KiB | Viewed 1228 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:40 pm 
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Unfortunately, it's impossible to fix PBS problems without the savegame+ttdpatch.cfg+newgrf(w).cfg.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:16 pm 
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maybe you have an auto-savegame?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:40 pm 
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Might just be me, but the crashed train, around the middle, is that signal right? It just doesnt seem like the right kind to have in the centre of that stretch.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:40 pm 
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With normal PBS signals I get sometimes trains getting stuck at the signals (that was after a67). And when I try it in a67, sometimes the game crashes to Windows. With my cfg start a new game, make a straight railroad, and a depot in the start, and pbs normal signals in some railtracks. The game will crash, or the train will get stuck.


Attachments:
File comment: Last crash
CRASH003.TXT [1.66 KiB]
Downloaded 52 times
File comment: My cfg
ttdpatch.cfg [34.5 KiB]
Downloaded 18 times

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:52 pm 
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Check the last line in the crash log, and download that file again.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:11 pm 
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Ah, I don't checked that, thanks. But the train still getting stucked at the signal. What am I doing bad?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:33 am 
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Post a screenshot of the junction in question (use Irfanview or something to convert it to PNG first!).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:25 am 
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Regrettably I don't have a savegame for that crash. Perhaps I can magic up a crash by deliberately killing an industry. I'll have a go at that. I realised that I didn't have a recent savegame and forgot about the autosave until it was too late.

The signal in the middle of the crash is a leftover PBS signal that used to be part of a branch line to the closed down industry. I inadvertently left it in there when I redesigned the line. The point is though that a single PBS signal should not have cause to spontaneously reset and allow a crash.

I know I need to provide the savegame and configs. I just wanted to alert everyone to the possibility that there is a potential problem when industries close down...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:01 pm 
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Screenshot (cfg's not changed).


Attachments:
SCR2.png
SCR2.png [ 57.99 KiB | Viewed 1043 times ]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:05 pm 
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Trains without orders may not pass PBS signals.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:20 pm 
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Thanks. I tested it without stations because I previously haved troubles with that signals and I don't knowed that without stations in list the trains can't pass PBS signals.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:13 am 
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Problem solved. It's the PBS signal but I suspect it's really my fault.

I recovered an old savegame and fastforwarded it waiting for the industry to close down. It never did, but a crash occurred anyway. Here's what happened (save+configs enclosed)

28th July
I suggest you halt the game immediately.
Train 66 is manually stopped at the junction, just clear of the rogue PBS
signal (to force the effect). The killer train sits at that PBS signal.

1st August
Train 2 sweeps into the lower junction by La Quiaca Transfer, moving from
east to west. As it passes through the junction, it resets the rogue PBS
signal, allowing the killer train to move forward. (Scr2)

The copper train moving from the west to the north does not appear to have an effect (I stopped it before it entered the junction as a test).

CRASH... (Scr4)

I accept that the rogue PBS signal should not be there and it's possible that nothing can be done to prevent such a situation. It's certainly beyond the limits of a normal PBS block IIRC.


Attachments:
Scr2.png
Scr2.png [ 508.49 KiB | Viewed 1001 times ]
Scr4.png
Scr4.png [ 340.95 KiB | Viewed 1001 times ]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:53 am 
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Whoops, forgot the savegame!


Attachments:
Trp11save.zip [162.3 KiB]
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:33 pm 
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what happens if you change the Rogue PBS signal to a normal signal?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:14 am 
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If changed to a normal signal, it will behave normally. That is to say a PBS signal further down the line will not reset this signal and trains won't crash.

Later in the same game in an entirely different spot, I had another train crash...and guess what...there was a PBS signal embedded in a normal one-way track. It was reset by the junction further down the line.

Entirely my fault.


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