gameplay ethics

[Ohnoes]

Just thought id ask what your personal thoughts are on some of these issues

Claiming industries;

I know, whoring land around an industry isnt right at all BUT...
-what if it was YOU who funded the industry? It wouldnt be unreasonable to claim it as your own I think. You payed for it after all. You should be entitled to exclusive access, right?

Processed material industries;

-Say for example you are delivering a significant amount of materials to a factory and also transporting goods from it. Then, someone decides to make a goods service from the factory without delivering any materials himself. Ugh. What would be the reasonable course of action? He is leeching off my goods..were it not for me there would be no goods at all.

Exclusive transport rights;

oh dear I HATE getting into exclusive transport wars. heres a story of what happened some time ago. I had a decent aircraft route going - then, other poeple decide to join. This particular guy decides to make airports around mine (most populated after all). Fair enough. But, he takes it to the next level. While both airports were getting good amounts of passengers - he buys exclusive transport rights - thereby leaving my international airport full and no passengers waiting to be delivered. His aiport hits the 4095 mark. He cant possibly require any more. So, i buy some exclusive transport rights until I get my aircrafts with some decent passengers but no...About 3 seconds after i click that button, he buys it back. .Im just trying to get my head above water. He has all the passengers to last a very long time but it seems that its not enough?

So - what are your thoughts

[Conditional Zenith]

These are just my opinions, and not necessarily the opinions of anyone else.

I think as long as the industry is not built to block something, built inside someone elses coverage area, built next to another industry to claim that one too, etc., then fair enough you having exclusive access to the industry you paid for for a certain time (eg. 10 years).

I think with the secondary goods, you got paid for delivering them, you don't own the goods that come out the other side. I think the goods that come out the other side are fair game; nothing stopping you cutting the primary goods though (it probably hurts you more than them though).

While it is obviosuly unethical to buy exclusive rights where you are not transporting passengers, I think it would be ethical to buy them if they weren't so cheap.

[White Rabbit]

I also think it's ok to take away goods, steel, paper, whatever, from secondary industries. As long as you let your opponents do the same for your factories/saw mills, etc.

I also kinda feel sory for buying exlusive transportation rights for towns a newly founded company has set up in...I won't do it again, and I'm sorry.

[Kong Basse]

I feel the same as Ohnoes. If someone is only taking goods or other secoundary things its not nice to take it from a facktory you are delivering too. (That is IF you take any goods from it...)

PS Noone can realy know that you have bought a industry unless you mark it with a sign or somthing...

[MeusH]

How about...

1. Have a exclusive transport rights to the industry for one year.

2. I agree with Zenith.

3. Maybye forbid buying exclusive rights for:
The best player
Players with rating smaller to mediocre\good

[Killer 11]

about number 3:
So what they can always plant trees or destroy them to modify the rating

[Ohnoes]

When I build my raw industries theyre usually crammed so that about 5-10 of them are in 1 stations catchment area. That is how I tell other players that those industries are 'mine' (random map generator would never do that). They are also usually at the edges of maps and I try not to have them get in the way of other players.

Another Issue I want to bring up;

When I make train networks they are usually VERY dense with traffic. Because of this I always make signals on every tile This is trouble for people want to bridge over but I've met other players who do this and I just tunnel under. Never had any problems. But I've had people tell me I shouldnt do that...

Exclusive transports;

I think theyre should be

-an option to disable it (well..yeah)
-an option to jack up the price of exclusive transports (IMO, its WAY too cheap as it is)
-an option to disallow anyone playing for a certain time period to buy exclusive transports from a town which would harm another company which hasnt passed that certain time period (Unless ofcourse the new company buys exclusive transports). (eg. 5-10years)

[MeusH]

about number 3:
So what they can always plant trees or destroy them to modify the rating

Okay, so let's say rating > excellent (it can't be achieved by planting trees)

-an option to disable it (well..yeah)

No.

-an option to jack up the price of exclusive transports (IMO, its WAY too cheap as it is)

Good idea.

-an option to disallow anyone playing for a certain time period to buy exclusive transports from a town which would harm another company which hasnt passed that certain time period (Unless ofcourse the new company buys exclusive transports). (eg. 5-10years)

Maybye intempleting Spinoff challenge system of claiming towns so player must do something *good* for town in order to get bonuses like buying exclusive transport rights?

[Hendikins]

Claiming industries;

I know, whoring land around an industry isnt right at all BUT...
-what if it was YOU who funded the industry? It wouldnt be unreasonable to claim it as your own I think. You payed for it after all. You should be entitled to exclusive access, right?

If I built it, I consider it to be mine.

Processed material industries;

I've been known to re-route my raw materials when people have done that. I consider it to be highly rude.

Exception: If somebody asks before doing it, and I can't do it myself, I'll usually be fine with it.

Exclusive transport rights;

Very, very evil. I'll disconnect anyone who buys them if I'm hosting - no questions asked, no recourse.

[Dundee]

-an option to disable it (well..yeah)

No.

Why not? It'd probably be simpler to have exclusive transport rights as a toggleable option in the interim while the mechanics are fiddled with to achieve anywhere remotely near balance.

If the mechanics of exclusive transport rights are being examined, one metric for deciding how much should be paid is to compare the interest in the city by the player wanting to purchase rights to the interests of other players in the city. The amount of profit generated from activities, the number of stations, the number of vehicles. If a city is being shared by five players and a sixth player with no interest in the city wants to buy the rights, it should be prohibitively expensive.

Another thing that could be looked at is to make it per-town-cargo rights. eg. You could buy exclusive rights to passengers in Atlanta. Limiting this to one cargo type per town per player would allow players to effectively share a city. This would mean people like Ohnoes could pay a yearly fee to keep their industry hubs to themselves and would force them to put any other hubs of constructed industries in other cities to prevent other players from 'borrowing'.

[Born Acorn]

-an option to disable it (well..yeah)

No.

Why not? It'd probably be simpler to have exclusive transport rights as a toggleable option in the interim while the mechanics are fiddled with to achieve anywhere remotely near balance.

Well. The same reason you guys want to "protect" your industry, I might want to protect my town.

Sorry, but I disagree with the whole "my industry" deal. This is a game of competition, it can be fierce. Its not a nice 1 company game where you can do whatever you want. If you haven't built a goods connection to a town. Others will

[Expresso]

1. Claiming industries is unethical, even if you just built them. However I also think it's unethical to immidiately start building at an industry someone else just built.

2. If I happen to supply a factory with stuff to produce things, and someone else takes those things to another place, that's just fine with me, may the best transporter win.

3. Exclusive transport rights are implemented in way which is open to abuse. Therefore I think it's unethical to use it. No excuse. No reason to use it either.

[MeusH]

1. Claiming industries is unethical, even if you just built them. However I also think it's unethical to immidiately start building at an industry someone else just built.

Make a good route before buying an industry and you'll be fine. Use advertising campaings, build statues or eventually buy exclusive transport rights.

2. If I happen to supply a factory with stuff to produce things, and someone else takes those things to another place, that's just fine with me, may the best transporter win.

That's right, may the best transporter win.



Belive me, the game would be pointless with "industry claiming" since multiplayer is about making competition. Multiplayer with no competition is like singleplayer with chat and less routes to build.

[Dundee]

1. Claiming industries is unethical, even if you just built them. However I also think it's unethical to immidiately start building at an industry someone else just built.

Make a good route before buying an industry and you'll be fine. Use advertising campaings, build statues or eventually buy exclusive transport rights.

2. If I happen to supply a factory with stuff to produce things, and someone else takes those things to another place, that's just fine with me, may the best transporter win.

That's right, may the best transporter win.

Belive me, the game would be pointless with "industry claiming" since multiplayer is about making competition. Multiplayer with no competition is like singleplayer with chat and less routes to build.

So if you agree that 'industry claiming' is bad (and is probably the fairest use of exclusive transport rights) why do you completely oppose an option which would allow transport rights to be toggled off by the server owner?

[MeusH]

Because this is all about business. Also I've specified rules I'd like to have exclusive rights avaible.

[Dundee]

Because this is all about business. Also I've specified rules I'd like to have exclusive rights avaible.

So?

What do people want?
They want the nonsense about people buying towns for anti-competitive reasons to stop.

What is the easiest, quickest and most realistic way to fix this in the short term while a more equitable solution is worked out?

* Implement toggleable exclusive rights, leaving the mechanics as they currently stand.

or

* Do nothing. Ignore the problem or keep pushing for something a long way off while completely dismissing anything which would actually solve the problem in the short run.

[DaleStan]

My 2 cents:

Exclusive rights have no business being in MP whatsoever. (If you can't handle the competition, then get off the server.)

[Expresso]

There might be a solution to the problem of exclusive transport rights.

If you get too much exclusive transport rights, all towns start to distrust you. If you destroy another company using exclusive transport rights, you could get a government investigation - monopoly abuse, which might result in things like:

• - Each city gets an 'appalling' view of you.
  - You get a huge fine (70% to 90% of your total cash + last years income).
  - You are forbidden to use exclusive transports rights... permanently.
  - You are disallowed to buy land and all unused land you own is sold, with - resulting money going to the damaged competitor or the local authority.
  - You are disallowed to buy shares of other companies. All shares you have in other companies are given back to the respective company.
  - Industries and towns start showing preference for other players' stations, even when the monopolist was first there and even when he's highest rated - they distrust him.

[bobingabout]

i say have the option to turn buy exclusive transport rights off to prevent it if the host doesn't want it on. just like bribes.

also, aslong as i havn't built a cargo route for goods from 1 of my factories (Trains or not) i don't mind people transporting the goods for me.

if you find people using your industries too often, try a bigger map. i usually only turn to using industries that other people are using if there are no others to use.

[ElectricA4]

1. You funded the industry, you don't own it. It might be annoying if someone moves in, but it's all competition.

2. I agree with Conditional Zenith. You don't have rights to the goods, and you have already been paid.

3. I think there should be a toggle on/off for this aswell. After about 10 years most people don't even have to look at their bank balance, as you have enough money to do what you want. I never use this feaure.

And the people who like playing with exclusive transport rights should of-course have the option of being able to do so.

I think there should be less of a sence of ownership in TT for things you just don't own (industries & towns).