Artists FAQ, and quick start guide (Updated 22/08/05)

anthropomorph · Post by **anthropomorph** » 13 May 2005 18:19

Okay, I am willing to spend a bit of time on this--I just downloaded Blender and it looks pretty straightforward--I have done some work with 3d studio max in the past. I would be happy to make some buildings or infrastructure.

I have a few overall questions for you, about the overall project though:
Are you talking about a 3d graphics engine in the game, or a graphics engine that uses sprites of 3d models?
How likely is it that this new graphics engine will be created in the way that you envision it?
Is this an initiative that the developers are watching and planning to implement, or is this something you plan to pitch to developers and try to convince them to implement?
Will the extensive collection of existing non-3d graphics ultimately make it more difficult to convince the developers to abandon that approach in favour of this? Or will the new graphics engine allow old graphics to be used as well?

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 13 May 2005 18:41

anthropomorph wrote:1.) Are you talking about a 3d graphics engine in the game, or a graphics engine that uses sprites of 3d models?
3.) Is this an initiative that the developers are watching and planning to implement, or is this something you plan to pitch to developers and try to convince them to implement?

1.) Sprites rendered from 3D models
3.) No. Try "implementing" instead. Mek has 32bbp sprites working.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 14 May 2005 02:41

anthropomorph wrote: I have a few overall questions for you, about the overall project though:
Are you talking about a 3d graphics engine in the game, or a graphics engine that uses sprites of 3d models?

sprites from 3d. (as already answered)

How likely is it that this new graphics engine will be created in the way that you envision it?

90%

some things in my envisionment such as new track layout scheme (actually suggested and proven by another user) may not make it in imediatly. so may be left out.

the two levels of land changing (a feature reauireed by the developers, not by me) will possibly not get in for a while. but all GFX will be designed for it.

other things will get in, just the basicly things are 100% likely to get in. i.e. new trains, new buildings, new smooth land sprites. the increased number of rotations for vehicles...

Is this an initiative that the developers are watching and planning to implement, or is this something you plan to pitch to developers and try to convince them to implement?

well most of my decisions have been made in conjuction with the developers (the major ones) the artistic decisions i am making more in conjunction with other artists.

but yes the devleopers had huge input into this fairly early on in the process. we argued and then agreed for hours and hours about things.

ultimatly it is a proposal, but which comes first the GFX or the engine? IMO the best chance of getting anything happening is to have the GFX available first.

Will the extensive collection of existing non-3d graphics ultimately make it more difficult to convince the developers to abandon that approach in favour of this? Or will the new graphics engine allow old graphics to be used as well?

it may be a split in the source with new GFX being the official developed version, i am not sure. the old GFX may still be usable (if you turn off many of the nicer features of the new engine) i am not sure yet, Mek might sort that out since he has 32bpp working in the old GFX engine along side the 256 colour stuff already there.

basicly the new GFX engine already has more trains available than the old one (as far as ai know)

the new GFX engine will have items not available in the old one.

trams for example.

Alltaken

anthropomorph · Post by **anthropomorph** » 14 May 2005 16:46

Thanks for the responses, Alltaken. I just wanted to be sure that if I did spend some time on this, there was a reasonable chance of these things being implemented--sounds like you've got everything planned out. Next question: what graphics should I start on? Sounds like you still have a need for buildings to be done?

One last question: anyone know of a program for the Mac that can extract 7zip files? I haven't found anything I can open that file with.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 14 May 2005 17:51

anthropomorph wrote:One last question: anyone know of a program for the Mac that can extract 7zip files? I haven't found anything I can open that file with.

Does p7zip work? I know it's labled as being for *nix, but the later Mac OSen are built on *nix, so it might work anyway.

anthropomorph · Post by **anthropomorph** » 14 May 2005 19:29

Does p7zip work? I know it's labled as being for *nix, but the later Mac OSen are built on *nix, so it might work anyway.[/quote]

In theory it does--but it requires compiling the source through the command line interface, and despite my best efforts I just can't figure out what the readme file is talking about.

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 01 Jul 2005 11:43

We need a new camera.blend because of the the 1.37 ortho camera changes....

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 01 Jul 2005 15:53

dmh_mac wrote:We need a new camera.blend because of the the 1.37 ortho camera changes....

yeah i will send one of them out.

what graphics should I start on? Sounds like you still have a need for buildings to be done?

Start with some buildings, start by recreating some of the current buildings (in essence not entirely copy) also note we need construction stages for buildings.

One last question: anyone know of a program for the Mac that can extract 7zip files? I haven't found anything I can open that file with.

all my new files will be in .zip format. to get rid of compatibility problems. so when i upload a new camera file, you can rest assured that you will be able to open it. till then you can start modeling before a camera and lighting setup is sent to you.

have fun people. i will get a file uploaded in the next few days to replace the old one.

Alltaken

Jeffrey · Post by **Jeffrey** » 02 Jul 2005 17:17

I have copied some buildings in a file, this way artists don't have to take screenshots themselves from those buildings...I hope it's helpfull

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 02 Jul 2005 17:54

if we are able to get ALL of the buildigns in a format like that. then it would be super helpfull.

this is our wiki page.
http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Enhan ... eplacement

effectivly we are hoping to get one image of every single object there, and that includes buildings (for redodeling)

having the images cropped to each sprite. means that i can upload them to my website then they can be easily linked to the Wiki.

if you could put them all in a zip file, then thats easiest for my site to take.

thanks dude. things like this are really helpfull.

Alltaken

maxcbc · Post by **maxcbc** » 15 Jul 2005 17:22

im no graphics man but i think of things that would improve gameplay.

On the landscaping menu add a second set of options so you can cut down into the earth, the surrounding lanscape would not be affected but the cost would be say 3 times higher.

the cuting would be this shape

¦ ¦
¦ ¦
¦ ¦
¦ ¦
¦_______¦

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » 16 Jul 2005 10:30

That could be pretty cool. The problem with that is you'd then want to be able to either somehow use transparency or make it possible to rotate the view because otherwise you'd end up with areas that you couldn't see.

Luz · Post by **Luz** » 08 Aug 2005 13:40

I tought the new models were build in 3d enviroment thus having 4 sides made? So rotation should be possible with not much fuss?

or is it 3d object rendered to a single 2d image with no other sides rendered..?

Dextro · Post by **Dextro** » 08 Aug 2005 14:42

Luz wrote:I tought the new models were build in 3d enviroment thus having 4 sides made? So rotation should be possible with not much fuss?

or is it 3d object rendered to a single 2d image with no other sides rendered..?

They will create 3D models that will then be turn into 2d sprites for use in-game and as far as I know rotation is predicted

(4 diferent angles just like in lomo or rollercoaster tycoon

).

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 08 Aug 2005 14:47

I guess my lazyness will be my downfall, I've only modeled the visible parts of my tiles so far

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 10 Aug 2005 11:43

Lol Dmh_mac, perhaps add 3 more cameras, then continue to model only the visable stuff

most of the time its just copies of things you have modeled already.

Alltaken

etko · Post by **etko** » 01 Nov 2005 19:49

Hi, I would like to join this project

. I mean new GFX replacement. I'm not super artist but I have some experience with 3DS Max. But first I would like to know where can I find detailed info on the sytem being used? Like basic shapes of the tiles, what lightining model is used (some kind of GI?).Is there some draft document about this?

dmh_mac · Post by **dmh_mac** » 02 Nov 2005 12:41

You can find some info in the wiki but most of the stuff is aimed at blender users.

http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/GFXDe ... evelopment

Just keep in mind:

- 1 tiles is 2 × 2 units in blender, which I think are interchangeable with max units, but I'm not sure. It doesn't realy matter since it's easily scaled as long as your tile is square

- 1 tile ~= 25 × 25 meters

- Final tiles will be rendered in blender so if you work in max don't spend too much time on materials, because they won't be converted to blender (regular image texturemaps are ok though, I think).

- Blender doesnt't have a native 3ds importer/exporter but there are some out there. don't know how well they work though.

- Blender does have native DXF OBJ and LWO importers (plus some others).

- Blender is a free and powerfull package. It's interface is a bit dawnting a first, but once you get to know it it's quite comfortable. So give it a try.

Enjoy

etko · Post by **etko** » 02 Nov 2005 17:50

Yes I know Blender and I like it, but I think that they are not following their unobtrusive UI idea enough

. Last time I tried it I had prolem with extremly obtrusive mouse gestures and with deleting multiple vertexes, unability to see "hiden" edges and no backface culling, those are thigs I use very often and I need them so I just decided to wait a bit until it gets more user friendly, on their forum there are multiple people complaining about this. Anyway thanks to blener I was able to set up Max keyboad hortcuts better way, so I ot almot ame effect. Now fo moelin I use on hand on kyboar an other on th mouse this speeded things fo me quite nough. But I'm not poffesional modeller just hobby one.

Anyway OBJ is ok, I read your quick and dirty tutorial, thank you. My last quetion is about texture maps. Is there some online repository of used textures (to preserve consistent look)?

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 03 Nov 2005 00:18

etko wrote:Yes I know Blender and I like it, but I think that they are not following their unobtrusive UI idea enough .

yeah i don't think they have done any better than any other software

Last time I tried it I had prolem with extremly obtrusive mouse gestures

yes i had this problem too, its just a matter of getting used to it (1 week tops) i have never hit a mouse gesture accidentally, and i don't really use them (i did in my early days though)

and with deleting multiple vertexes

why is that a problem? do you mean multiples like two in the same location? or just more than one at a time?

if its two in the same location then there is a 2 button combo that will do it all. W then remove doubles.

, unability to see "hiden" edges and no backface culling

in wireframe mode you can see hidden edges, in solid mode you can turn on backface culling, that is standard now as of last release.

next release will have fluid dynamics, booleans opperations (i think that will get in) new animation system, advanced font managment (i think that got in, one guy coded blender to basicly rival anything like freehand in terms of fonts)

will be pretty full on. some of the issues you have had with blender in the past may have been addressed in the last few releases.

but yes using 3dmax is totally fine, and not a problem to anyone, but will need to be re-textured later (also not a porblem once we get a standard texture/material library

Alltaken

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