My comments on TT and TTD

[Eddie Bernard]

Chris Becke <chr...@mvps.org> wrote

"Eddie Bernard" wrote:

I think I know why TT plays from 1950-2050, Maglev's! The extra twenty
years
are a good excuse for saying these new trains were invented then. And
boy
are they good!

I was dissapointed by the loss of the monorail bridge - it looked so nice
sweeping accross valleys

Yep. I remember my first game of TTO and I noticed the steel monorail
bridge. I was quite impressed. I had fiddled the landscape to make an island
city, and it was very busy. Those steel bridges going across the oceans were
even better!

I think another reason was to simplify the other scenario types (tropical
/
arctic? and toyland). They have a smaller selection of vehicles that
bahave
(in terms of upgrades and stuff) in a far more regimented (boring -
preditable) way than the profusion of differing vehicles offerd in the
classic scenario.

Yep. All the dates had to be standardised. They all have to fit in with each
other.

In TTO you had to wait for the Ginzu to be developed and released. Its
just
there & available in TTD - almost boring

Exactly.

Eddie
-- Personal Site: http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net
-- Transport Tycoon World: http://www.ttworld.cjb.net

[Eddie Bernard]

Josef Drexler <jdrex...@julian.uwo.canada> wrote in message

You can set it back to 1920 (maybe 1921), place a sign and name it "Cht:
Year 1920". But then you have to wait more than 30 years for the next
engines to become available.

Oh yes, I've just read the readmes again. It wouldn't be any use going back
to 1920 though, as you say, no new vehicles. And in the meantime, wouldn't
the reliabilty of all the others decrease as well? Or could I use the
sign:RENEW cheat to solve the problem?

Eddie
-- Personal Site: http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net
-- Transport Tycoon World: http://www.ttworld.cjb.net

[Patchman]

In article <MPG.12f15e24abe57250989...@news1.on.sympatico.ca>, Josef
Drexler says...

You can set it back to 1920 (maybe 1921), place a sign and name it "Cht:
Year 1920". But then you have to wait more than 30 years for the next
engines to become available.

Ooops, should've mentioned that this of course requires that TTDPatch is
used...

http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/ttdpatch/

--
Josef Drexler | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/
---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Please help Conserve Gravity | To email me, please change the country
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[Spider]

And since some asked me what I like about TTD, here it goes:
- one way signals (they are awesome)
- signals in curves
- the maglevs (they didn't exist in TT)
- the new tubed bridges
- the bug fixes
- that I can cross streets with monorails and maglevs

There's only one thing that annoys me: the redesigned outfit
of the monorail. It looked much better, smoother in TT than
in TTD. Especially the long bridges were just cool.

I don't know if you noticed, but when I first got TTD I noticed something
really quick:
The airport in TT can only support one Plane, taxing the runways, taking
off/landing, etc. In TTD the airport is broken up in pieces where up to 4
planes can be moving around the airport, on sort of a signal basis. One
landing/taking off, one in the runway piece going to take off, one in the
runway who just landed and one plane around the terminals.

--Spider--

P.S. TTD is sooooooo much better then TTO, IMO, there's no comparison to
which one is better.

[Chris Becke]

"Eddie Bernard" wrote:

I don't think any patch lets you change the date. Maybe we should ask
Josef
about it.

I do aggree. Getting the "early years" back might be fun...

I think I know why TT plays from 1950-2050, Maglev's! The extra twenty
years
are a good excuse for saying these new trains were invented then. And boy
are they good!

I was dissapointed by the loss of the monorail bridge - it looked so nice
sweeping accross valleys

I think another reason was to simplify the other scenario types (tropical /
arctic? and toyland). They have a smaller selection of vehicles that bahave
(in terms of upgrades and stuff) in a far more regimented (boring -
preditable) way than the profusion of differing vehicles offerd in the
classic scenario.

In TTO you had to wait for the Ginzu to be developed and released. Its just
there & available in TTD - almost boring

Chris
--
VisualC++ & Win32 FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/vcfaq
My Win32 Page: http://users.lia.net/chris/win32

[Patchman]

In article <8685v8$s...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Eddie Bernard says...

Josef Drexler <jdrex...@julian.uwo.canada> wrote in message
You can set it back to 1920 (maybe 1921), place a sign and name it "Cht:
Year 1920". But then you have to wait more than 30 years for the next
engines to become available.

Oh yes, I've just read the readmes again. It wouldn't be any use going back
to 1920 though, as you say, no new vehicles. And in the meantime, wouldn't
the reliabilty of all the others decrease as well? Or could I use the
sign:RENEW cheat to solve the problem?

The "Persistent Engines" takes care of reliability problems. An engine
doesn't get less reliable anymore, for as long as you (or a computer) use
it.

Btw, the upcoming (yeah, I know I said that three months ago too )
update of TTDPatch will have huge bridges, 127 squares should be enough
for anyone... (at a sufficiently increased cost, of course). Just
thought I'd mention that because people have complained about it here.
This feature works already, but others cause some weird bugs so I can't
release it yet, I'm afraid.

--
Josef Drexler | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/
---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Please help Conserve Gravity | To email me, please change the country
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[Chris Becke]

zip-all chance you can find and enable the original monorail bridge I
suppose?


"Josef Drexler" <jdrex...@julian.uwo.canada> wrote in message
news:MPG.12f16f8545c0422b989814@news1.on.sympatico.ca...

In article <8685v8$s...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Eddie Bernard says...
Josef Drexler <jdrex...@julian.uwo.canada> wrote in message
You can set it back to 1920 (maybe 1921), place a sign and name it
"Cht:
Year 1920". But then you have to wait more than 30 years for the next
engines to become available.

Oh yes, I've just read the readmes again. It wouldn't be any use going
back
to 1920 though, as you say, no new vehicles. And in the meantime,
wouldn't
the reliabilty of all the others decrease as well? Or could I use the
sign:RENEW cheat to solve the problem?

The "Persistent Engines" takes care of reliability problems. An engine
doesn't get less reliable anymore, for as long as you (or a computer) use
it.

Btw, the upcoming (yeah, I know I said that three months ago too )
update of TTDPatch will have huge bridges, 127 squares should be enough
for anyone... (at a sufficiently increased cost, of course). Just
thought I'd mention that because people have complained about it here.
This feature works already, but others cause some weird bugs so I can't
release it yet, I'm afraid.

--
Josef Drexler | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/
---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Please help Conserve Gravity | To email me, please change the country
Play Hockey, not Baseball. | code to .ca - Death to Spammers!

[Patchman]

In article <3887a9cc$0$35...@helios.is.co.za>, Chris Becke says...

zip-all chance you can find and enable the original monorail bridge I
suppose?

Not impossible, but very very unlikely. I mean, it *might* be possible
to replace one of the existing bridges with the old ones, pending I find
out how graphics work.

Not for the next couple of months, though. (I.e. not in the next
version)

--
Josef Drexler | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/
---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Please help Conserve Gravity | To email me, please change the country
Play Hockey, not Baseball. | code to .ca - Death to Spammers!

[Mike Wagstaff]

On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:17:05 GMT, jdrex...@julian.uwo.canada (Josef Drexler) wrote:

Btw, the upcoming (yeah, I know I said that three months ago too )
update of TTDPatch will have huge bridges, 127 squares should be enough
for anyone... (at a sufficiently increased cost, of course). Just
thought I'd mention that because people have complained about it here.
This feature works already, but others cause some weird bugs so I can't
release it yet, I'm afraid.

Josef, is there any chance of a list of what new features to
look forward to in the upcoming patch?

-Mike [http://games.hplx.net]

[Patchman]

In article <192692857125114NEWS...@news.dial.pipex.com>, Mike Wagstaff
says...

On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:17:05 GMT, jdrex...@julian.uwo.canada (Josef Drexler) wrote:

Btw, the upcoming (yeah, I know I said that three months ago too )
update of TTDPatch will have huge bridges, 127 squares should be enough
for anyone... (at a sufficiently increased cost, of course). Just
thought I'd mention that because people have complained about it here.
This feature works already, but others cause some weird bugs so I can't
release it yet, I'm afraid.

Josef, is there any chance of a list of what new features to
look forward to in the upcoming patch?

No!!! It's top secret!!! You'll never find out!!!! (Ok, now I've run
out of exclamation marks... Anybody know where I can buy another set?)

Straight from my ttdpatch.todo file...

Currently implemented (but not entirely functional yet) are:
- Remove all city roads; in-between pieces with ratings penalty=12 trees
- fixed Obelisk stations: if station removal doesn't clear all platforms
"something" remains
- fixed Undead vehicles. When built not immediately -14 profit.
- fixed Cht: Year w/o number = crash!
- Small airports after 1975 or so.
- fixed 2055+16000 days bug (trains constantly going into depots)
- Build 7x7 station - with Ctrl 3-7/4-7 not 1-5/1-4
- Longer bridges
- restrict cheats in multiplayer games to the player placing the sign
- fixed bugs: -airplane count, -servint, -mountain/curve not hex, CD
drive parameter
- Recursion factor change from 6; should make AI building more
intelligent

Planned if easy enough to do, but maybe not for this version:
- Retain vehicle names when selling and buying again
- Wait indefinitely at signals
- Remove city bridges; large penalty of course
- fix Busses going wrong way when looking for depot?
- Max Loan = comp.value-cur.loan+min.loan
- place > 1 tree
- Bulldoze HQ
- Cht: OwnCrossing should determine the owner by tracing the tracks
- find lost trains (E+D, 4)
- pre-signals for all one-way to two-way sections
- RV's: no collision detection in the station to prevent gridlock
- Refittable hovercrafts, make mail/oil/food a refit option for trains
and planes; divide ships into tanker and dry good ships

--
Josef Drexler | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/
---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Please help Conserve Gravity | To email me, please change the country
Play Hockey, not Baseball. | code to .ca - Death to Spammers!

[Pete Humble]

Quoth "Chris Becke" <chr...@mvps.org> in
alt.games.microprose.transport-tyc:

The subs that appear in TTD are being phased out as soon as the game starts
so there is no chance to build a shipping route in time for a sub and a ship
to "meet".

That can't be right, as it was about 2005 when I last saw one.

--
___ __o Pete Humble, JRI Europe, Ltd
_ \<,_ Email: peet AT dircon DOT co DOT uk
(_)/ (_) Any resemblance between the views expressed here
============= and those of my employers is pure coincidence.

[Spider]

Currently implemented (but not entirely functional yet) are:
- Remove all city roads; in-between pieces with ratings penalty=12 trees
- fixed Obelisk stations: if station removal doesn't clear all platforms
"something" remains
- fixed Undead vehicles. When built not immediately -14 profit.
- fixed Cht: Year w/o number = crash!
- Small airports after 1975 or so.
- fixed 2055+16000 days bug (trains constantly going into depots)
- Build 7x7 station - with Ctrl 3-7/4-7 not 1-5/1-4
- Longer bridges
- restrict cheats in multiplayer games to the player placing the sign
- fixed bugs: -airplane count, -servint, -mountain/curve not hex, CD
drive parameter
- Recursion factor change from 6; should make AI building more
intelligent

Planned if easy enough to do, but maybe not for this version:
- Retain vehicle names when selling and buying again
- Wait indefinitely at signals
- Remove city bridges; large penalty of course
- fix Busses going wrong way when looking for depot?
- Max Loan = comp.value-cur.loan+min.loan
- place > 1 tree
- Bulldoze HQ
- Cht: OwnCrossing should determine the owner by tracing the tracks
- find lost trains (E+D, 4)
- pre-signals for all one-way to two-way sections
- RV's: no collision detection in the station to prevent gridlock
- Refittable hovercrafts, make mail/oil/food a refit option for trains
and planes; divide ships into tanker and dry good ships

C'mon you gotta add the option of increasing factories and how much they
produce: purely for designing super-railways

--Spider--

[Peter J. Dobrovka]

You must have put an incredible amount of time already into this patch - why
don't you rewrite the program completely keeping the graphics? Wouldn't it
be easier?

Peter

[Aaron Severn]

In article <s8fv6e2beh...@corp.supernews.com>, "Spider" <askme...@myrealaddress.com> writes:

I don't know if you noticed, but when I first got TTD I noticed something
really quick:
The airport in TT can only support one Plane, taxing the runways, taking
off/landing, etc. In TTD the airport is broken up in pieces where up to 4
planes can be moving around the airport, on sort of a signal basis. One
landing/taking off, one in the runway piece going to take off, one in the
runway who just landed and one plane around the terminals.

That brings up a bug that wasn't in TTO. Have you noticed that sometimes
after plane crashes, planes will stop using one of the loading areas, as if
there was a plane there but there really isn't? Sometimes I've had some
airports reduced to a single loading area, which really sucks if it's busy,
then it gets back to like in TTO where planes circle for ages. Only solution
I've found is do destroy the airport and build a new one in its place.

P.S. TTD is sooooooo much better then TTO, IMO, there's no comparison to
which one is better.

I'd have to agree with you there.
-Aaron

[Aaron Severn]

In article <867scd$u7...@news.netway.at>, "Phillip Michael Jordan" <pmjor...@gmx.at.REMOVETHIS> writes:

I've seen a submarine very recently in TTD, so its still there.
--
I've never seen one! What do they do?
Ruin ships?

The ones I've seen had absolutely no effect on anything as far as I could
tell, they'd just appear in the water somewhere, move around, and then
disappear. Still, they could be fun to watch if you were in a boring time
during the game, with nothing better to do.
-Aaron

[Rijk]

Phillip Michael Jordan <pmjor...@gmx.at.REMOVETHIS> wrote

At last nobody mentioned one major improvement of TTD: the one way
signals!

I don't really use them!

What???
Ahhhrgh I couldn't live without 'em!
I almost ONLY use one-ways

As I've said a couple of times, I use signals sparingly. Only if it is
only
over a long distance, or the production is high.

Eddie

Since I new of the existence of two-way tracks with signals (that was after
I played the game for already two years...I used the German version then,
without knowing a single german word), I even use them for a line with just
one train...that's also easy when the production increases; capacity is easy
to increase then too.

There are many things I saw just when I played the game for years
already...I always thought you could only build four type of bridges, since
I never saw the scroll bar in the build-a-bridge menu. And the function of a
non-stop station as a way of pathfinding, I discovered just a week ago,
after I read the readme-file of ttdpatch. Yes, I keep on learning while I am
playing.

Alex R.

[Eddie Bernard]

Josef Drexler <jdrex...@julian.uwo.canada> wrote

Eddie Bernard says...

Oh yes, I've just read the readmes again. It wouldn't be any use going
back
to 1920 though, as you say, no new vehicles. And in the meantime,
wouldn't
the reliabilty of all the others decrease as well? Or could I use the
sign:RENEW cheat to solve the problem?

The "Persistent Engines" takes care of reliability problems. An engine
doesn't get less reliable anymore, for as long as you (or a computer) use
it.

Btw, the upcoming (yeah, I know I said that three months ago too )
update of TTDPatch will have huge bridges, 127 squares should be enough
for anyone... (at a sufficiently increased cost, of course). Just
thought I'd mention that because people have complained about it here.
This feature works already, but others cause some weird bugs so I can't
release it yet, I'm afraid.

Excellent. I hated having to raise platforms in the sea so I could cross
that very wide river. Especially early on in the game, when money can be
very limited.

Eddie
-- Personal Site: http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net
-- Transport Tycoon World: http://www.ttworld.cjb.net

[Patchman]

In article <s8h43nnveh6...@corp.supernews.com>, Spider says...

Currently implemented (but not entirely functional yet) are:
[snip TTDPatch - The Next Version]

C'mon you gotta add the option of increasing factories and how much they
produce: purely for designing super-railways

I'll see what I can do... I don't expect this to be too difficult but I
never know.

But I've put it into my todo file.

--
Josef Drexler | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/
---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Please help Conserve Gravity | To email me, please change the country
Walk with a light step. | code to .ca - Death to Spammers!

[Patchman]

In article <86a41b$8q...@news00.btx.dtag.de>, Peter J. Dobrovka says...

You must have put an incredible amount of time already into this patch - why
don't you rewrite the program completely keeping the graphics? Wouldn't it
be easier?

I'm not so sure. So far I'm changing less than 8KB of executable code.
And that's out of more than 1MB. I'm sure that I'd never have the time
to finish it...

The other problem is that I'm not very good at programming games. I've
tried a few times, but always failed. Particularly the AI is a problem,
it would be even dumber than it is now.

So, I think it takes less time to modify TTD slightly than to do it all
over again just to make a small change.

OTOH, it would help if I ever got a hold on the TTD source code, but I
can't see that happening...

--
Josef Drexler | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/
---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Please help Conserve Gravity | To email me, please change the country
Walk with a light step. | code to .ca - Death to Spammers!

[Peter J. Dobrovka]

Josef Drexler schrieb in Nachricht ...

In article <86a41b$8q...@news00.btx.dtag.de>, Peter J. Dobrovka says...
You must have put an incredible amount of time already into this patch -
why
don't you rewrite the program completely keeping the graphics? Wouldn't
it
be easier?

I'm not so sure. So far I'm changing less than 8KB of executable code.
And that's out of more than 1MB. I'm sure that I'd never have the time
to finish it...

1 MB of ASM - this is an incredible amount, isn't it?
3DTT has a quarter of it yet.

The other problem is that I'm not very good at programming games. I've
tried a few times, but always failed. Particularly the AI is a problem,
it would be even dumber than it is now.

But you could analyze the AI as you did with the other features.

So, I think it takes less time to modify TTD slightly than to do it all
over again just to make a small change.

Hehe, the changes people are requesting here are no longer small.

OTOH, it would help if I ever got a hold on the TTD source code, but I
can't see that happening...

This would be very nice. But you won't even success in talking to C.S., not
speaking of asking him this.

Peter
--
Die 3. Dimension der Strategiespiele:
http://www.digitalprojects.com/way-x