Simpler is better?

[Edward Bernard]

I've been analysing a lot of games from TT recently, and have been comparing
them to my own. The main thing I noticed was despite the fact that these
games had complex railway systems...they never made as much profit as any of
my own. The difference in the games being the fact that signalling, and
integrated railways networks are virtually non-existent in my game,
especially the latter. All my train lines usually have a single train on it,
which is the most powerful available, and carries the maximum number of
carriages, with all cargo trains set to full load.
I am wondering whether it is worth my while trying to setup an integrated
network, when my own system works fine. Sure it's ugly and takes up *a lot*
of the map, but as far as I can tell, it works better. My rule is simply,
one line = one line only in exceptional circumstances, like high production
and new trains are brought in, but still the most on a line for me would be
two.

If you would like to have a look at one of my typical games, and this one
was from the recent TT competition, then get it from

http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net/fil ... algame.zip (170KB)

Any views, thoughts, comments and insults (!) greatly appreciated.

Eddie

--
The official TTNG website:
http://www.ttworld.the-whale.com

[Peter J. Dobrovka]

Edward Bernard schrieb in Nachricht <838rkh$ss...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>...

I've been analysing a lot of games from TT recently, and have been
comparing
them to my own. The main thing I noticed was despite the fact that these
games had complex railway systems...they never made as much profit as any
of
my own.
...
If you would like to have a look at one of my typical games, and this one
was from the recent TT competition, then get it from

http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net/fil ... algame.zip (170KB)

Any views, thoughts, comments and insults (!) greatly appreciated.

Again a future scenario... If you have trains with 400 mph of course there
is no need for complex networks. They are so quick they haul everything in
time. But how did you before 2000 with normal trains?

Hey, hasn't anybody here savegames of 1960-1980 with breakdowns enabled?
This is much more interesting for me.

There is one thing true in what you say. Because of TT's terrible
pathfinding you have to build much more tracks for networks than it is good
for your income.

Peter

--
Die 3. Dimension der Strategiespiele:
http://www.digitalprojects.com/way-x

[Edward Bernard]

Again a future scenario... If you have trains with 400 mph of course there
is no need for complex networks. They are so quick they haul everything in
time. But how did you before 2000 with normal trains?

Before 2000, things were fine really running the T.I.M. trains and AsiaStar.
Maybe even going back to the SH110 it was fine. Earlier than that, the
trains did run very slowly, but I still made a good profit. When the real
trains arrived, the profit rocketed. The only reason it goes down on the
graph was because I had to suffer a recession Luckily it ended before
the end of the game, thus I won the competition by at least a million £'s
operating profit.

Eddie

[Trikky]

Edward Bernard <e...@ttworld.the-whale.com> wrote in message
news:838rkh$ssi$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

I've been analysing a lot of games from TT recently, and have been
comparing
them to my own.

Ooo......You have too much free time my lad!!! B-)

The main thing I noticed was despite the fact that these
games had complex railway systems...they never made as much profit as any
of
my own. The difference in the games being the fact that signalling, and
integrated railways networks are virtually non-existent in my game,
especially the latter.

You'll probably find that most people spend so much time an d money
upgrading and moving the damn things that its never set long enough to
generate it!!! B-)

All my train lines usually have a single train on it,
which is the most powerful available, and carries the maximum number of
carriages, with all cargo trains set to full load.

I would normally use this method.....Its only having a go at high-volume
stuff that I used the RO-RO stations *at all*!

I am wondering whether it is worth my while trying to setup an integrated
network, when my own system works fine. Sure it's ugly and takes up *a
lot*
of the map, but as far as I can tell, it works better.

<ahem> If it ain't broke....Don't fix it.....
It would be good to *learn* how to do it....But if you make more money/get
better performance ratings then use your method.

My rule is simply, one line = one line only in exceptional circumstances,
like high
production and new trains are brought in, but still the most on a line for
me would be
two.

Yeah.....Thats how I play.

If you would like to have a look at one of my typical games, and this one
was from the recent TT competition, then get it from
http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net/fil ... algame.zip (170KB)

I'll go have a look.....

Any views, thoughts, comments and insults (!) greatly appreciated.

Humph....You'd get the insult as a matter of course... B-)

--
Rick McGreal
ICQ - 51210676
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

[Edward Bernard]

I've been analysing a lot of games from TT recently, and have been
comparing
them to my own.

Ooo......You have too much free time my lad!!! B-)

Well...I do now that school has finished for christmas.....HOORAY!

<--snip-->

All my train lines usually have a single train on it,
which is the most powerful available, and carries the maximum number of
carriages, with all cargo trains set to full load.

I would normally use this method.....Its only having a go at high-volume
stuff that I used the RO-RO stations *at all*!

I very rarely use RO-RO. The only time is as I mentioned just for high
production lines.

I am wondering whether it is worth my while trying to setup an
integrated
network, when my own system works fine. Sure it's ugly and takes up *a
lot*
of the map, but as far as I can tell, it works better.

ahem> If it ain't broke....Don't fix it.....
It would be good to *learn* how to do it....But if you make more money/get
better performance ratings then use your method.

The highest I've ever got with performance using this is 932, but for
operating profit, I can get very large amounts of money.

My rule is simply, one line = one train only in exceptional
circumstances,
like high
production and new trains are brought in, but still the most on a line
for
me would be
two.

Yeah.....Thats how I play.

Finally....someone who plays like me. I've often looked at some signallised
games and thought...is it worth it? If you want a big passenger network,
just run a loop line between the stations. Two lines, covering every
station, and each train attempting to run in the clockwise direction. One
line for passengers, one for mail, and even introduce other things into it
if it's worth it. Or you could have the trains running in opposite
directions on the two lines. One line clock, one anti-clock. Depending on
the size, it would be best to stick no more than three trains on this
formation.
But wait....what the hell was that complicated track layout in the TT comp?
I thought you've just told me that you play by one line = one train. I'm
confused.

If you would like to have a look at one of my typical games, and this
one
was from the recent TT competition, then get it from
http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net/fil ... algame.zip (170KB)

I'll go have a look.....

It was my very last competition submitted file.

Any views, thoughts, comments and insults (!) greatly appreciated.

Humph....You'd get the insult as a matter of course... B-)

Naturally. I thought maybe more people would respond to this post, seen as
though it's about signalling. Perhaps loads of people are busy? Maybe not
due to the high amount of posts on here recently.

Eddie

[Trikky]

Edward Bernard <e...@ttworld.the-whale.com> wrote in message
news:838rkh$ssi$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

If you would like to have a look at one of my typical games, and this one
was from the recent TT competition, then get it from
http://www.ebernard.greatxscape.net/fil ... algame.zip (170KB)
Any views, thoughts, comments and insults (!) greatly appreciated.

Blimey Ed...You don't believe in diagonals do you?

I don't like maps that clogged up tho'. If that was me I would have made
most of the tracks lay side by side.

Quite good tho!

--
Rick McGreal
ICQ - 51210676
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

[Edward Bernard]

Naturally. I thought maybe more people would respond to this post, seen
as
though it's about signalling. Perhaps loads of people are busy? Maybe not
due to the high amount of posts on here recently.

Ok, here's a response.

You are *railtrack*! Profits, profits, profits!

And also, Railtrack wouldn't dream about having one line one train services.
Waste of resources.

Nah, I just find making one line-one train systems boring. What I find
fun is extending service town by town.

I see what you mean. I have had a go once, and it is quite a challenge to
keep juggling your services, and understanding the signalling. Sadly though,
my efforts were a disaster, and a nice train crash happened. *That's* when I
scrapped the network.

My profits arent quite as massive as yours but I always have a 904
rating.

There's that "limit" as it's been referred to again. There must be some
reason why there is great difficulty in going above it.

Eddie

[Pete Humble]

Quoth "Edward Bernard" <e...@ttworld.the-whale.com> in
alt.games.microprose.transport-tyc:

Finally....someone who plays like me. I've often looked at some signallised
games and thought...is it worth it? If you want a big passenger network,
just run a loop line between the stations. Two lines, covering every
station, and each train attempting to run in the clockwise direction. One
line for passengers, one for mail, and even introduce other things into it
if it's worth it. Or you could have the trains running in opposite
directions on the two lines. One line clock, one anti-clock. Depending on
the size, it would be best to stick no more than three trains on this
formation.
I tried that once: it was quite successful, having a series of trains

following each other around a circular track. You had to be very careful,
however, about where you positioned stations, depots, signals and
destination points otherwise trains would sometimes "stick".
--
___ __o Pete Humble, JRI Europe, Ltd
_ \<,_ Email: peet AT dircon DOT co DOT uk
(_)/ (_) Any resemblance between the views expressed here
============= and those of my employers is pure coincidence.

[Trikky]

Edward Bernard <e...@ttworld.the-whale.com> wrote in message
news:83bqlo$auo$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...

Yeah.....Thats how I play.
Finally....someone who plays like me. I've often looked at some
signallised
games and thought...is it worth it? If you want a big passenger network,
just run a loop line between the stations. Two lines, covering every
station, and each train attempting to run in the clockwise direction. One
line for passengers, one for mail, and even introduce other things into it
if it's worth it. Or you could have the trains running in opposite
directions on the two lines. One line clock, one anti-clock. Depending on
the size, it would be best to stick no more than three trains on this
formation.

I like the idea ...If you look at my problem save file I have had a go at a
circle thing like you were on about......But it was naff... B-(

But wait....what the hell was that complicated track layout in the TT
comp?
I thought you've just told me that you play by one line = one train. I'm
confused.

I did?
Was it good? I don't think it could have been that good as I don't remember
doing it!!!

Any views, thoughts, comments and insults (!) greatly appreciated.
Humph....You'd get the insult as a matter of course... B-)
Naturally. I thought maybe more people would respond to this post, seen as
though it's about signalling. Perhaps loads of people are busy? Maybe not
due to the high amount of posts on here recently.

I think most NG's die off during the run up to Xmas.....Most people have to
spend time doing there shopping done...........(Incidently, I did mine half
way throught November!!!)
Also people will have people coming round over the Xmas period.....Were off
all over the country from 25th- mid Feb....

We'll actually pass a fair amount of people in the NG!!!!
Visiting family up near Paul Wright and Kmarcks up in Cumbria.
Then we'll drive past Nick Allen in Scotland (Up to Inverness....)
Thenm back down to Watford........(Near Chris Locke and Dan Ros!

Wow....What a busy Xmas I've got......All that and a baby too!!!!
--
Rick McGreal
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

[Stephen Down]

Aw, that's no fun!

Any idiot (except the computer) can build a railway or whatever between
two stations and make a profit.
The real challenge is to make a profitable *network* ~ much more
interesting! (Not to mention more realistic)

--
Due to lack of interest tomorrow is cancelled

email address spam-trapped
see if yooo can spot it

[Edward Bernard]

I did?
Was it good? I don't think it could have been that good as I don't
remember
doing it!!!

I don't know, but there is a screenshot on my site. It won the most
complicated layout in the comp.

We'll actually pass a fair amount of people in the NG!!!!
Visiting family up near Paul Wright and Kmarcks up in Cumbria.
Then we'll drive past Nick Allen in Scotland (Up to Inverness....)
Thenm back down to Watford........(Near Chris Locke and Dan Ros!

Boo hoo! No one ever comes by me

Eddie

[Edward Bernard]

Blimey Ed...You don't believe in diagonals do you?

Only when neccesary. As the AI did almost nothing all game, there was no
need to block it in anywhere. I use them very rarely because I'd be blocking
my lines otherwise.

I don't like maps that clogged up tho'. If that was me I would have made
most of the tracks lay side by side.

Yes it is clogged up, but it would be a lot worse. There is a lot of usage
of sea level tunnels to save map space.

Eddie

[Kmarcks]

"Dan Ros" <upl...@happynoweddie-ductape.net> wrote in message
news:23hZOAVdHXjQX2CEutNq0J3UjCo=@4ax.com...

In <83bqlo$au...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Edward Bernard"
e...@ttworld.the-whale.com> wrote...

Naturally. I thought maybe more people would respond to this post, seen
as
though it's about signalling. Perhaps loads of people are busy? Maybe not
due to the high amount of posts on here recently.

Ok, here's a response.

You are *railtrack*! Profits, profits, profits!

Nah, I just find making one line-one train systems boring. What I find
fun is extending service town by town.

hi, yeh I like to connect all my track and send lots of tains down one
roadway,i often have a dozen
or more trains on the same track, sorting out the signals and making
them go the right way is my
fun.
kmarcks

My profits arent quite as massive as yours but I always have a 904
rating.


--
Posted to agmt-t only;
Make Eddie unhappy by removing
that part from the email address.

[Kmarcks]

"Trikky" <tri...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:83e2bd$967$2@gxsn.com...

Edward Bernard <e...@ttworld.the-whale.com> wrote in message
news:83bqlo$auo$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Yeah.....Thats how I play.
Finally....someone who plays like me. I've often looked at some
signallised
games and thought...is it worth it? If you want a big passenger network,
just run a loop line between the stations. Two lines, covering every
station, and each train attempting to run in the clockwise direction.
One
line for passengers, one for mail, and even introduce other things into
it
if it's worth it. Or you could have the trains running in opposite
directions on the two lines. One line clock, one anti-clock. Depending
on
the size, it would be best to stick no more than three trains on this
formation.

I like the idea ...If you look at my problem save file I have had a go at
a
circle thing like you were on about......But it was naff... B-(

But wait....what the hell was that complicated track layout in the TT
comp?
I thought you've just told me that you play by one line = one train. I'm
confused.

I did?
Was it good? I don't think it could have been that good as I don't
remember
doing it!!!

Any views, thoughts, comments and insults (!) greatly appreciated.
Humph....You'd get the insult as a matter of course... B-)
Naturally. I thought maybe more people would respond to this post, seen
as
though it's about signalling. Perhaps loads of people are busy? Maybe
not
due to the high amount of posts on here recently.

I think most NG's die off during the run up to Xmas.....Most people have
to
spend time doing there shopping done...........(Incidently, I did mine
half
way throught November!!!)
Also people will have people coming round over the Xmas period.....Were
off
all over the country from 25th- mid Feb....

We'll actually pass a fair amount of people in the NG!!!!
Visiting family up near Paul Wright and Kmarcks up in Cumbria.
Then we'll drive past Nick Allen in Scotland (Up to Inverness....)

watch out for those wild haggis up there, there deadly (kmarks)

Thenm back down to Watford........(Near Chris Locke and Dan Ros!

Wow....What a busy Xmas I've got......All that and a baby too!!!!
--
Rick McGreal
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
tri...@bigfoot.com
http://www.transport-tycoon.co.uk

[Chris Locke]

Then back down to Watford........(Near Chris Locke and Dan Ros!)
I'll leave you out a glass of milk and a mincepie..... !!!

[chunky]

Kmarcks wrote in message <83es7g$m2...@plutonium.btinternet.com>...

Nah, I just find making one line-one train systems boring. What I
find
fun is extending service town by town.

hi, yeh I like to connect all my track and send lots of tains down
one
roadway,i often have a dozen
or more trains on the same track, sorting out the signals and
making
them go the right way is my
fun.

Me too, the fun in games like TT comes from devising elegant and
efficient solutions to problems, not from maximising an arbitary rating
or profit. Extending a system only happens when the existing network is
running just the way I want it too. This is the reason I never entered
the competiton, I would definitely lose 'cos I would spend too much time
tinkereing with a line.

cheers...
chunky
(reply address is spam protected)
http://go.to/chunky

[Stephen Down]

Dan Ros wrote:

You get a funny sick feeling when you see two trains heading toward
each other, and you know there's nothing you can do in time...

Hit F1!

Then stop every train in site.

Then you have time
(unless you're playing TTO and the trains are nose to nose)

--
Due to lack of interest tomorrow is cancelled

email address spam-trapped
see if yooo can spot it

[Rémi Denis]

Dan Ros <upl...@happynoweddie-ductape.net> a écrit dans le message :
Ch9aONDChZXO1KA3NUcQmHu=x...@4ax.com...

Ah well I have crashes too sometimes, usually when I try and cut corners
by messing around with the signalling while the trains are still
running, or when unblocking deadlocks. You get a funny sick feeling when
you see two trains heading toward each other, and you know there's
nothing you can do in time...

Ever heard about *pause*: quickly move your mouse left and up and click.
And, ouf... you have all the time you need to stop your train.
If you aren't lucky, as I was once, your trains are stopped too close, so
that you can't explode any square between them: TTO doesn't include the
TTDlx « go back » button.

--
Rémi

--
Posted to agmt-t only;
Make Eddie unhappy by removing
that part from the email address.

[Patchman]

In article <C%%64.174$ZG6.1248...@nnrp3.proxad.net>, Rémi Denis says...

Dan Ros <upl...@happynoweddie-ductape.net> a écrit dans le message :
Ch9aONDChZXO1KA3NUcQmHu=x...@4ax.com...
Ah well I have crashes too sometimes, usually when I try and cut corners
by messing around with the signalling while the trains are still
running, or when unblocking deadlocks. You get a funny sick feeling when
you see two trains heading toward each other, and you know there's
nothing you can do in time...

Ever heard about *pause*: quickly move your mouse left and up and click.

Or even better, press F1. My left hand is always on the F1 anyway.
That's how I build -- press F1, click mouse, press F1. Move mouse, and
think what I'll build next, and where, then the whole sequence again.
It's the only way to get anything done on my far too fast machine.

And, ouf... you have all the time you need to stop your train.
If you aren't lucky, as I was once, your trains are stopped too close, so
that you can't explode any square between them: TTO doesn't include the
TTDlx « go back » button.

You can always make one go the other way with the "Reverse Train" button,
too.

However, the only way this situation can arise is if you either remove a
signal, or remove a section of track and build it again while two trains
where waiting at a signal leading to this section.

--
Josef Drexler | http://publish.uwo.ca/~jdrexler/
---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Please Conserve Gravity: Don't | To email me, please change the country
hang your clothes - pile them up| code to .ca - Death to Spammers!

[Robert Raygor]

Me too, the fun in games like TT comes from devising elegant and
efficient solutions to problems, not from maximising an arbitary rating
or profit. Extending a system only happens when the existing network is
running just the way I want it too. This is the reason I never entered
the competiton, I would definitely lose 'cos I would spend too much time
tinkereing with a line.

cheers...
chunky
(reply address is spam protected)
http://go.to/chunky

I certainly agree

That is exactly how I play the game. I spend way too much time changing the
entire layout. (over and over)..I love finding solutions to make a line more
efficient and ways to keep traffic flowing as smoothly as possible. .
Playing scenarios created by gamers here is great, but I enjoy examining
saved games even more..I have learned so much from doing so. Thanks to all
for making them available!!
Yes, there are a lot of us out here that are TT addicts and read this ng
religiously. I'll try to post more often instead of sitting quietly in the
background.

confirmed TT addict...
RR
SirLoin4...@worldnet.att.net