Busses and other stuff for new graphics engine

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 29 May 2005 10:29

Sellu, well i would love to see one at 100% scale (25 meters per tile) and one at 50%scale (zoomed out half)

perhaps the smaller boats (liek ferries and such) can be at 100% scale, whereas Huge boats could be at 50% scale. (or perhaps based on the length of a boat we create a parabolic type scale, it would not be hard to impliment i would think. this would limit the maximum size of boats.

i think for boats of this size to be viable, we need to have a curve based navigation system that has a width built into it. as boats are not really as restricted by any track types and such as other things.

things like vehicle transport would now be available, buses traveling via boat across rivers...

very good work though, i do love it.

Alltaken

Sellu · Post by **Sellu** » 29 May 2005 11:04

Hmm, I thought the ships were in same scale with eachother like busses are in scale with other busses. Ill see what I can do.

It would look bit weird if huge 300m ships had same lenght with some rusty riverboats.

After ships we have to decide the scale of planes, 100% isn't the solution there either.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 29 May 2005 12:29

ha ha thats insane

i think we perhaps need a range of ships (from small passenger ferries, up to the size of the oild tanker.) before we can decide a scale.

how big are the hovercraft that go across the english channel? a model of one of them to scale would be interesting. since in reality they are fairly small for a boat size. (well i would say medium size for a passenger type thing)

then we need an ultra small sized boat, one that fits about 60 passengers (we have a boat like that which travels across our harbour)

i think that a parabolic scale might be a good sollution. so that small boats are proportionally bigger than huge boats. (but still smaller)

but to test that i think we need a number of them.

100% is certainly NOT the sollution.

Alltaken

LordOfThePigs · Post by **LordOfThePigs** » 29 May 2005 13:58

I think a linear scale is not the solution either.

Maybe the scaling should be done following some log function. That is, the in game size would be log(size in real life). This would maintain the impression of having vehicles bigger than others, while not having ridiculously big scaling differences.

The good thing about a log scale would be that it could be applied equally to all vehicle types. If a train is the same size as an airplane or a bus in real life, it would still be the same size in game.

Edit: I didn't read Alltaken's post up to the end, but it looks like he suggesting a similar no-linear solution

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 29 May 2005 14:12

maybe you should do it like Model Railways and Model Planes etc are done, theres a certain scale. For Example 1:160 scale, meaning the object is 160 times smaller than the real one.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 29 May 2005 14:39

LordOfThePigs wrote: Edit: I didn't read Alltaken's post up to the end, but it looks like he suggesting a similar no-linear solution

ThorRune · Post by **ThorRune** » 29 May 2005 15:47

Akalamanaia wrote:maybe you should do it like Model Railways and Model Planes etc are done, theres a certain scale. For Example 1:160 scale, meaning the object is 160 times smaller than the real one.

Would not be possible here, obeously things in the game is not as big as the real ones, but making everything as small would kinda remove the point... Would be just the same as zooming out.

I agree 100% will not even close to work.

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 29 May 2005 16:35

How wouldn't it be "possible" ThorRune, unless you misunderstood my post, its very much possible to do that.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 29 May 2005 19:58

oboka wrote:Another thing that is becoming obsolete is the user interface, a lot o buttons, unordered, hard to find... in this way I think that Locomotion is a lot better than OpenTTD.

AHHH!!! NOOOOO!!!
[O]TTD has all the important functions and toolbars available with no more than two clicks. I've recycled most of the neurons ascociated with the Loco UI, but I seem to remember that it takes many clicks to get to what you want in Loco.

Dextro · Post by **Dextro** » 29 May 2005 20:07

DaleStan wrote:
oboka wrote:Another thing that is becoming obsolete is the user interface, a lot o buttons, unordered, hard to find... in this way I think that Locomotion is a lot better than OpenTTD.
AHHH!!! NOOOOO!!!
[O]TTD has all the important functions and toolbars available with no more than two clicks. I've recycled most of the neurons ascociated with the Loco UI, but I seem to remember that it takes many clicks to get to what you want in Loco.

And besides that it's almost impossible to understand where each action is at first glance. In [o]ttd you understand almost in a mather of seconds what the buttons do

ThorRune · Post by **ThorRune** » 30 May 2005 06:53

Akalamanaia wrote:How wouldn't it be "possible" ThorRune, unless you misunderstood my post, its very much possible to do that.

How do you figure ujsing, like, a 1:40 scale would work here? It would be exactly the same as zooming out. Making everything 40 times smaller then in reality would just make the same things with another name, like. How do you figure it'll work?

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 30 May 2005 08:07

ThorRune wrote:
Akalamanaia wrote:How wouldn't it be "possible" ThorRune, unless you misunderstood my post, its very much possible to do that.
How do you figure ujsing, like, a 1:40 scale would work here? It would be exactly the same as zooming out. Making everything 40 times smaller then in reality would just make the same things with another name, like. How do you figure it'll work?

What are you smoking? Your post makes no sense.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 30 May 2005 10:32

Akalamanaia wrote:What are you smoking? Your postS makes no sense.

MeusH · Post by **MeusH** » 30 May 2005 12:27

Alltaken wrote:
Akalamanaia wrote:What are you smoking? Your postS make no sense.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 30 May 2005 12:53

lol thanks for that correction

Alltaken

LordOfThePigs · Post by **LordOfThePigs** » 30 May 2005 12:58

Again, Murphy's law showed it's power. It is well know that any spelling correction/flame/bash message must contain at least one spelling mistake (or you won't correct them all, which is no more than a side rule...).

That Murphy guy is always right, and it's really annoying...

Sellu · Post by **Sellu** » 30 May 2005 18:06

In my opinion all ships should be at consistent scale to each other in similar scale to the tanker. Smallest ships&boats could have switch that made them 2 or 4 times bigger but it could be optional. Then some ships could be at 100% scale with busses&trains.

Alltaken · Post by **Alltaken** » 31 May 2005 09:05

Sellu wrote:In my opinion all ships should be at consistent scale to each other in similar scale to the tanker.

how do you mean scale? overall size? (i.e. all ships = 3 tiles long)
or physical scale (i.e. 1 square =100m scale?)

the problem i see is, i see animations for things like cargo being loaded on looking funny if containers on the trucks are bigger than those on the boats (unless we take major artistic liberties on the boats)

also what happens when you want to drive a bus or two onto a boat so it can cross a river? (where the city council will not let you build bridges??? (it might happen in the future.)

the thing with a logrythmic scale, or parabolic scale is that you can have small vehicles (whicha re more likely to have interactions) at real scale. so train tracks could enter a boat (is the boat is about 25 meters wide) and you could put a short train in the boat (like we do here in my country to get from one island to the other via trains. we have a lot of trains traveling by boat each day)

but as the boat gets larger and larger (up to oil tanker size, which is frankly HUGE) the size on the screen becomes less and less realistic.

this way we could have some form of limit... i.e. a boat could be no more than 6 tiles long (which would be pretty damn big) but a small boat would possibly be 2-3 tiles long.

i just think that oil tankers will totally kill any boat scale we have. i want to see tests of this before we make a decision though.

i am always open to being proven of a better way.

Alltaken

Sellu · Post by **Sellu** » 31 May 2005 09:28

I mean that one grid would be like 100m. I don't see why would the ships need to be at log or parabolic when nothing else in the game is and in my opinion transport game has to handle all sized vehicles not just trains or some rowing boats.

In my opinion there could be switch as I said that made some small ships look like same scale with busses and using it or not would be players decision.

(Are you serious about the containers? One modest sized containership can carry containers of 2000 trucks.

)

Korenn · Post by **Korenn** » 31 May 2005 11:27

the problem is that the ship would be HUGE compared to the rest of the vehicles. It might look impressive, but it's not practical for use in the game.

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