Planeset [version 1.5.3 released 2006-10-24]

fire87 · Post by **fire87** » 10 May 2005 10:24

Heh.. I use planespeed 3

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 10 May 2005 14:58

OK, I think I'm convinced now that leaving the cost adjustments due to the planespeed switch up to the plane .grf files is perhaps not the best solution.

So, I hope I'm not sabotaging your work here, I don't know how far you are in implementing this, but I think I'd like to automatically multiply all plane running costs by the planespeed setting. This will still make higher settings advantageous because planes make more trips during their lifetime and thus earn more money. But at least it won't be quite as unbalanced as it is now.

(Can you tell I've just played a game focussing on planes rather than trains?

)

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 10 May 2005 15:55

While you're tinkering with that, Patchman, can you fix the planes-speed-up-when-broken problem? Although, I thought I read that you already had worked on that. I guess I don't pay enough attention to notice that.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 10 May 2005 16:22

krtaylor wrote:While you're tinkering with that, Patchman, can you fix the planes-speed-up-when-broken problem? Although, I thought I read that you already had worked on that. I guess I don't pay enough attention to notice that.

What are you talking about? That's been fixed for ages if you don't have "planespeed off".

459 · Post by **459** » 10 May 2005 16:33

krtaylor, that planes-speed-up-when-broken issue was fixed ages ago. It occured when with planespeed off each broken plane flew 216mph, even the ones with top speed less than 216mph. The reference to this problem has been removed from Planeset documentation as a sign that it's no longer an issue.

Of this planespeed and running cost thing, I'm confused.

I'd like to see planespeed and running cost separate. Patchman should do the planespeed in a way it'd work best with range of selections. DaleStan has done the higher running cost modifier which I'll use unless something I'll suggest below happens. We'll give the recommended values for planespeed in doc then but let the freedom of choice for user.

Another possibility I see is to make the patch adjustable so that you can adjust the running cost separately for each vehicle type (road, train, plane, ship). Something like base running cost*given factor. Is it possible to implement in patch? This'd give the user complete control of running costs and plane speeds and cause us to have less work.

Comments?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 10 May 2005 16:37

Like I said, I thought I'd read it was fixed, but a couple posts ago, DaleStan said it was still there. I personally have never noticed it, even when it was present, I guess because I don't watch planespeeds that closely.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 10 May 2005 17:20

That is *NOT* what I said:

DaleStan wrote:... if "planespeed off". With it off, some of the slow aircraft *speed up* when they break down.

(emphasis added)

Patchman, do planes speed up on the ground too? Earlier discussion claimed that with larger planespeed settings, planes spend a larger percentage of their time on the ground, making them not as much faster as the planespeed setting would indicate. Hence the reason for the {1/1.5/2/2.5} multipliers instead of {1/2/3/4}.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 10 May 2005 17:31

AFAIK, all planes move at the same speed on the ground, don't they?

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 10 May 2005 18:04

DaleStan wrote:Patchman, do planes speed up on the ground too? Earlier discussion claimed that with larger planespeed settings, planes spend a larger percentage of their time on the ground, making them not as much faster as the planespeed setting would indicate. Hence the reason for the {1/1.5/2/2.5} multipliers instead of {1/2/3/4}.

All planes have the same speed on the ground. However, perhaps considering the number of trips during its lifetime would justify larger factors for the running cost.

I guess, in the end this would need to be determined by playing games at the various settings and seeing if and how much planes are unbalanced compared to the other transport types.

I don't know if this has all been discussed in detail for the planeset (I do not recall having seen the trips-per-lifetime issue at all yet). If it has, I'd appreciate if someone could summarize the conclusions or else we should have this discussion now, either in this thread or a new one.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 10 May 2005 18:14

I don't think it's been discussed in detail, except insofar as conceptually it makes sense to have a suitably higher running cost when you are using a fasterplanes setting. Your idea of trips-per-lifetime makes sense, although it's actually more complex than that. If you adjusted the prices with fasterplanes so that the operating costs increased proportionately with the plane's in-game speed, then fasterplanes would still be making the planes disproportionately too profitable. Why? Because the per-passenger revenue isn't constant - they pay more when they are delivered faster. So comparing a normal setting with a fasterplanes setting such that the plane goes twice as fast in-game, then the operating cost would have to be something more than twice as much.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 10 May 2005 18:46

OK. Obviously my question wasn't very clear:
Does the planespeed switch affect the speed of planes on the ground?

I'm not sure how relevant the answer is, but that was the question I meant to ask.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 10 May 2005 19:06

DaleStan wrote:OK. Obviously my question wasn't very clear:
Does the planespeed switch affect the speed of planes on the ground?

Obviously my answer wasn't very clear. No.

George · Post by **George** » 10 May 2005 19:23

DaleStan wrote:Earlier discussion claimed that with larger planespeed settings, planes spend a larger percentage of their time on the ground, making them not as much faster as the planespeed setting would indicate. Hence the reason for the {1/1.5/2/2.5} multipliers instead of {1/2/3/4}.

I also think that x4 speed gives not more effect than x2.5 income. I think it is about x2 in most cases because of jams in the airports.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 10 May 2005 19:49

DaleStan wrote:I'm debating putting together code that will disable the Planeset if "planespeed off". With it off, some of the slow aircraft *speed up* when they break down. "planespeed 1" through "planespeed 4" will all be acceptable.

Planespeed 1 makes them a little faster, but not crazy-go-nuts, right? If thats the case, I agree with you - as long as you put it in the readme, and be willing to work through all the people with "bug reports"

.

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 10 May 2005 19:56

"planespeed 1" is the same as "planespeed off" except that it fixes the go-faster-when-broken-down bug.

Raichase · Post by **Raichase** » 11 May 2005 06:17

Patchman wrote:"planespeed 1" is the same as "planespeed off" except that it fixes the go-faster-when-broken-down bug.

Thats even better. Thanks Josef!

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 16 May 2005 05:14

RedFox seems to be saying that we have the wrong cargo capacity for the Ruslan. Was that a gameplay decision, or should it be adjusted?

(oh, and *bump*)

459 · Post by **459** » 16 May 2005 08:35

According to this both are "correct", this explains why we have different figures from different sources. However, since we are using the values for original versions of first operational flight, I'd change the capacity to 120 tons.

Then again, we'll have to get the cargo capacities for all pax planes working by inventing the exact cargo capacity in tons to them. Now they are quite optimistic.

RedFox · Post by **RedFox** » 16 May 2005 09:54

Yes but you will Have authentic payed loading capacity... AN 124 has Payed loading capacity above Boeing 747 in any configuration.. And at you on the contrary...

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 16 May 2005 16:06

It's not too difficult to set different capacities for different cargoes. It requires callbacks, but fortunately everything except pax, mail, and goods are measured in tons.

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