Japan Set Development

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 18 Mar 2005 21:14

Let's leave the terraces out.

1. They're too hard.

2. They're not common in Japan.

If later someone has inspiration and figures them out, we can add them. But I don't want to get stuck. I'd rather we concentrate on a Japanese farm building, and Japanese houses.

prissi · Post by **prissi** » 18 Mar 2005 22:23

Ok, here is a farm house under LGPL by a guy named "915". Unfourtunately I did not have any other datas, only that it was ok to take this out from Freetrain to use in other things. Perhaps, to accomodate the different shadows in TTD, it still need mirroring.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 18 Mar 2005 22:26

It needs mirroring, but it's gorgeous! We'd have to mirror it for sure. I don't suppose it uses the same palette either but I think we have tools to adjust that, don't we?

The TTD farm building area is larger than that. We could either incorporate that house into a larger farm space by adding a barn, farmyard, etc.; or, we could just use it as a normal house, flagged for low-density areas. Thoughts?

prissi · Post by **prissi** » 19 Mar 2005 00:02

It should be in TTD palette, at least this was my intention. And unfortunately, there are very little accessorys in japanese farm houses. To me, old farms look like the now live in the new house and use the old just as a shed. (And they very often still have outdoor toilets (or not public plumbing in rural areas). What size the fram should be? 128x128?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 19 Mar 2005 00:14

I think actually the farm layout is a little more complicated than that. A farm isn't drawn as one big piece. The game randomly assembles the farm building from several different components. I'm not sure exactly how many pieces. Hmm... I'll see if I can get the layout of the existing farm "pieces", and then you can see how they're put together and draw replacements accordingly. Your existing farm house will do fine as one of the pieces, once you've mirrored it so the light is right.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 19 Mar 2005 01:30

Another small bug - I don't think the EF200 should ever go obsolete, as it's in the last generation of locomotives. That way you can always have at least two electric freight locos to choose from.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 19 Mar 2005 02:52

Here are the sprites out of which the farm building is composed. Note that each building square is separate, even though the two house squares are always located next to each other. Also note that each square requires two separate sprites - a "base" sprite which is displayed when transparency mode is on, and a building sprite which is displayed on top of it when transparency mode is not on. You can see the farm buildings, barns, silos, and livestock yard, although of course you can alter them.

While we're on the subject of farms, we now have the rice fields and paddies which are appropriate to the Temperate climate, but what would be appropriate for the Arctic climate? In the Japanset, that represents Hokkaido. What do they grow there? Cattle?

Szappy · Post by **Szappy** » 19 Mar 2005 07:22

krtaylor wrote:It needs mirroring, but it's gorgeous! We'd have to mirror it for sure. I don't suppose it uses the same palette either but I think we have tools to adjust that, don't we?

The TTD farm building area is larger than that. We could either incorporate that house into a larger farm space by adding a barn, farmyard, etc.; or, we could just use it as a normal house, flagged for low-density areas. Thoughts?

The palette is not a problem with Spriteeditor/GrfMaker.
As for the layout of the farm building: newindustries, anyone?
Although it does need somewhat bigger farm, that an 1x1 building, the layout can be freely defined.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 19 Mar 2005 15:02

Newindustries doesn't work yet. I think the default farm layout is usable as it is, so no need to get complicated.

onodera · Post by **onodera** » 19 Mar 2005 15:20

krtaylor wrote:I think there was an upload failure. Can you re-upload that file? It was a PNG in the first place, are you able to save it as a PNG again? I'm not sure if the palette gets messed up in translation.

Well, I use GraphicsGale with TTD palette, so the colours are preserved, but here you are.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 19 Mar 2005 16:09

I mirrored the house and added it to the table. Now it should fit in.

As far as the signals, they look great, but I don't think there are enough of them. I mean, now there are supposed to be separate variants for non-PBS and PBS block presignals.

I don't know how real Japanese signals work, but the thought occurred to me that to indicate non-PBS presignals, you could use magic-yellow to put an always-blinking yellow light above or below the normal signal indicators; and for PBS signals, do the same with magic-red. You might have some better idea though.

And here's the house:

onodera · Post by **onodera** » 19 Mar 2005 16:28

krtaylor wrote:As far as the signals, they look great, but I don't think there are enough of them. I mean, now there are supposed to be separate variants for non-PBS and PBS block presignals.
I don't know how real Japanese signals work, but the thought occurred to me that to indicate non-PBS presignals, you could use magic-yellow to put an always-blinking yellow light above or below the normal signal indicators; and for PBS signals, do the same with magic-red. You might have some better idea though.

Erm. Either I do not understand something, or there are enough signals.
I mean, we need normal signals, entry, exits, combo, entry-pbs, exit-pbs, combo-pbs. The same for phores.
In our file we have:
normal phores
entry phores
exit phores
combo phores
normal phores once again (why these? O_o)
entry phores (PBS)
exit phores (PBS)
combo phores (PBS)

normal sigs
entry sigs
exit sigs
combo sigs
normal sigs (PBS) (do these even exist? O_o)
entry sigs (PBS)
exit sigs (PBS)
combo sigs (PBS)

All PBS variants except entry and exit phores are three-state ones. Does The Patch support this?
PBS and non-PBS signals can easily be told between (PBS are taller), but I can't say that about phores - the pink shaft is too small. I think I'll make it brighter. And exit/combo signals are almost indistinguishable. I'll make the exit bar brighter.

prissi · Post by **prissi** » 19 Mar 2005 22:32

In Hokkaido, they grew a lot of potatoes (really), and it is also famous for milk, butter, and cheese. So there are also cows.

I attached two replacements for the shed with the big wooden door, I suggest the "salada" field and for the silo I suggest the greenhouse, which is either used for growing the new rice plants before they are set into the ground or several other things, including tomatoes. Therfore, I would wsuggest using the rightmost sprite, which has young small rice in small black pots.

For the greenhouse the size and offset is 37 53 -26 -9, and of course the salada don't need any offset.

The "double garages" could be also found in japan, I think.

The farmhouse will need an outdoor toilet and probably a small shrine, where the farmes pray and thank for good harvest (smaller than 2mx1mx1m) and some trees?

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 20 Mar 2005 01:45

You know, Ive looked at the sprites, and I figure it isnt going to be too much work to make the Japan Set grass also work for Arctic climate. Well, it already does, I just need to tweak some more sprites for it to work seamlessly.

\o/

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 20 Mar 2005 03:28

That was simple, magic select and paste-into did the trick, now behold:

http://aegir.bur.st/files/ttd/

The pcx's and the .lst are for Szappy.

Enjoy!

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 20 Mar 2005 03:31

WOW! That's gorgeous!

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 20 Mar 2005 03:32

DanMacK wrote: WOW! That's gorgeous!

Yes. Yes it is.

Fully compatible with Tropic, Temperate and Arctic. Also has a curious effect on Toyland.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 20 Mar 2005 05:36

1. I hadn't anticipated changing the Arctic grass, but you're right, it's a huge improvement. Beautiful. I think we will need to change some of the trees too, although probably the cherry trees will look out of place.

2. prissi, I like the direction you're going with the farms. It sounds like your farm buildings will work fine for both temperate and arctic farms, but that we'll need different fields for the Arctic.

3. onodera, I honestly don't know the answer about the signals. Szappy, can you look at them, or Sanchimaru, to tell us what we have and what (if anything) is needed?

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 20 Mar 2005 06:50

krtaylor wrote:1. I hadn't anticipated changing the Arctic grass, but you're right, it's a huge improvement. Beautiful. I think we will need to change some of the trees too, although probably the cherry trees will look out of place.

Im not changing the trees in my .grf, this is so that it remains compatible with other sets. However, when Szappy merges it with the Japset, fixing the trees for arctic would be a good idea.

DaleStan · Post by **DaleStan** » 20 Mar 2005 07:38

onodera wrote: Erm. Either I do not understand something, or there are enough signals.
I mean, we need normal signals, entry, exits, combo, entry-pbs, exit-pbs, combo-pbs. The same for phores.
<snip>

*rummage*
It looks like you've got the 256 you need, except that you need semaphore PBS standard sigs, in addition to the three semaphore PBS pre*sigs

256 is 16 (2colors*8directions)*2(PBS/Normal)*2(lighted/semaphore)* 4(3 presigs+1 standard).
So yes, normal lighted PBS signals do exist, as do normal semaphore PBS signals

onodera wrote:All PBS variants except entry and exit phores are three-state ones. Does The Patch support this?

No. TTD has two-state signals. I do not forsee this changing.

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