Poor Pathfinding

Carskick · Post by **Carskick** » 10 Sep 2004 20:28

I was expecting smarter vehicles in locomotion, but I was apperently wrong. Although the waypoint feature can make it so the user can define a vehicles path, as cities grow, buses get lost. I haven't really gotten to that point with trains, but I have a few buses who take a wrong turn to go underground the city, which ends, then they turn around and do it again. Events such as this has taken place several times. There should be an a better pathfinding method for vehicles, and I hope Chris will implament this into a locomotion patch. Although you could tell me to just use waypoints, buses can get confused as the city changes and expands despite waypoints.

madman2003 · Post by **madman2003** » 10 Sep 2004 20:37

I have had trains get lost too, a lot more than other vehicles.(i use more trains, than other things) But proper use of waypoints works, but pathfinding in ttd/ttdpatch/openttd seemed to be better. Loco doesn't seem to understand complex junctions well.

Madman2003.

Carskick · Post by **Carskick** » 10 Sep 2004 22:23

madman2003 wrote:I have had trains get lost too, a lot more than other vehicles.(i use more trains, than other things) But proper use of waypoints works, but pathfinding in ttd/ttdpatch/openttd seemed to be better. Loco doesn't seem to understand complex junctions well.

Madman2003.

I agree with that. As far as trains, I've been okay so far, even though I have a few somewhat complex networks. My major complaint is in the cities, but I'll bet it wouldn't be too hard to have trains get lost.

ampz · Post by **ampz** » 11 Sep 2004 12:24

I have also had problems with trains getting lost on medium-sized networks.
But the even more annoying thing is that the trains first try to go the wrong way off a RORO station if I don't set a waypoint on the correct exit of the RORO station. Arghh.

klausbreuer · Post by **klausbreuer** » 11 Sep 2004 17:18

Whooo. Try something more irritating: build a ship and send it off around an island (like the very first scenario).

Apparently, the algorithm says: "Try to move directly towards it. If you get lost, try again". My sailors (lovely clipper ship, this) were apparently just watching the cute girls sunbathing on the beach, because the ship did nothing but turn in front of it.

Well, good thing we have waypoints. And I honestly hope for a patch with this - come on, Chris, you're a brilliant programmer, give us an A* algorithm? Can't be that much of a CPU-load, and make it optional if you have to...

fsdave · Post by **fsdave** » 11 Sep 2004 18:09

It keeps things simple to use simple pathfinding. Why cant you just use waypoints? Seriously, is it HARD to use waypoints? I dont think it is... Just a simple click.

Although I suggest using waypoints from the start, because it gets confusing after a while if you have to start changing train routes etc...

Kilgry · Post by **Kilgry** » 11 Sep 2004 18:42

The pathfinding is the biggest problem with the game IMO. I thought Simcity 4 had problems but not like this. When a game is made with its main focus being, "getting cargo from point A to point B", you should expect some might fine pathfinding.

It's a pain that the game itself does not support you need to create an efficent transport company. It's like being a manager who has created a great company but hiring 5th graders to drive the vehicles.

Waypoints might help, but they shouldn't be needed.

Faithful · Post by **Faithful** » 11 Sep 2004 18:57

Kilgry wrote:Waypoints might help, but they shouldn't be needed.

Very much agree with this statement.

I hope someone is reading this thread that can do something about it.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 11 Sep 2004 19:54

It is possible that trains can find there route by themself.
In Trains & Trucks tycoon i had never problems with it.

tompagenet · Post by **tompagenet** » 11 Sep 2004 21:49

There does seen to be something thoroughly wrong with the pathfinding - it's hardly the only problem with the game. The playtesting appears to have been less that extensive.

CAI · Post by **CAI** » 11 Sep 2004 23:54

The poor pathfinding is what is enjoying my enjoyment in the game :/

Chris please fix this :-]

fsdave · Post by **fsdave** » 12 Sep 2004 01:11

Who cares? Just use waypoints.

In the real world someone has to route the trains.. its not up to the driver

zathras · Post by **zathras** » 12 Sep 2004 01:13

Sometimes waypoints don't help, unless you get them just right.

I have an open loop with just 4 stops--basically a U shape. Just one track, and one train.

Without way points, on the 3rd stop, my train just turns around and goes back the way it came instead of going around a curve and hitting the last stop. Seems it thinks the loop is closed and it can get to the last stop by going around the other way--the long way. Maybe, I'm not sure what it's thinking.

I put some way points that, to me, or most humans, would make it clear which way to go. But it didn't work until I put the waypoints at a certain spot along the curves on my track. I think curves are confusing to my train engineer.

Anyhow, it can be worked around, but I hope it gets fixed in a patch, along with some other things.

Hey, I'm new around here. I suspect Chris is at least aware of OpenTTD. Is he also aware of these forums? Might he read them or drop by or make his presence otherwise known in some form or another?

Ildefonse · Post by **Ildefonse** » 12 Sep 2004 01:16

Well..

but this is a game

I agree that with current processor power it should be easy to have vehicles find their way on their own. Waypoints should only come in handy when you want a very specific route to be taken in a complex network or something like that.

fsdave · Post by **fsdave** » 12 Sep 2004 01:19

zathras wrote: Might he read them or drop by or make his presence otherwise known in some form or another?

if he made his presence known hed probably get swamped

Mystic · Post by **Mystic** » 12 Sep 2004 02:59

if he made his presence known hed probably get swamped

I was writing back and forth with Chris by e-mail for a while until his e-mail address was rerouted to Atari's Media department, and since then I've lost contact. I'm certain that the main reason was his mailbox was constantly flooded by questions/demands, possibly inappropriate messages and it was unavoidable.

Ah well... Back to pathfinding.

I'm noticing that the pathfinding in LOMO is lacking to say the least. I had a very simple layout to begin with. (Will post Screenie later).

On the west of the map I had an Oil Refinery. I had 3 trains coming from North, South and East all towards the west on 2-one way tracks. However, the train that was supposed to go North always went south for some reason, and my southern train kept blocking the signal waiting to get though, but the northern train was blocking the route. (This was fixed using waypoints, however I don't remember having to use so many waypoints in TTDX.)

The only times I remember using Waypoints in TTDX was when I had trains that had to traval from the bottom of the map to the top along a main line, and through a few branch lines along the way to help it keep from getting lost, but even without the waypoints in TTDX the train eventually found its way. The trains in Locomotion are determined to go the wrong way in my maps unless I strictly point out the correct way to go!

I'm not disappointed or anything, I was just hoping that pathfinding would have been a major part of this game. Perhaps there should be some sort of slider for your own AI intelligence alongside the Competitors AI intelligence, and the more you select for yourself, the more powerful the PC has to be, since more processes need to be done.

Just a thought.

Faithful · Post by **Faithful** » 13 Sep 2004 00:11

Does anyone have any info if there is a patch will it fix this issue?

Carskick · Post by **Carskick** » 13 Sep 2004 02:00

fsdave wrote:Who cares? Just use waypoints.

In the real world someone has to route the trains.. its not up to the driver

That's not always the case. I've had truckers ask me where something is several times. They are often given a general idea, but not extremely specific examples. Becides, your suppose to be the CEO of the company. The CEO doesn't tell the drivers where to turn. The people below him/her does, which in this case should be the computer.

ampz · Post by **ampz** » 13 Sep 2004 02:18

The CEO does not build railroad track either.

Carskick · Post by **Carskick** » 13 Sep 2004 02:51

ampz wrote:The CEO does not build railroad track either.

True. But you don't phyisiclly build it, you tell "them" where to build it. I think you are more than a CEO according to the manual. Planner, or whatever, but I still shouldn't have to tell my trucks what street to turn at.

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