Returning to OpenTTD after 16 years away.

[peterloud]

Way back in 2008 I developed a scenario for Northumberland, England. It was 1024 x 512 , the towns, villages, rivers, coastline and elevation were all correctly geo-positioned. I preferred to play the game as a single player without any competitors, a bit like the first SimCity. The map had lots of empty spaces for developing complex transport systems. It worked great, but that was in 2008.

I went back to the game yesterday after not having seen it for many, many years. I installed OTTD v.14 and the game didn't work. The key problem was a couple of GRFs, (ECSMachw.grf and similar), no longer worked. As they were embedded I could not remove the faulty GRFs. After much searching around I found a few old devlopment files that didn't have those damned GRFs and managed to open up the scenario. Now I might get back to improving the game.

OTTD is a fascinating game. It requires much more careful thought than shooting endless zombies and it does need an £800 fancy graphics card.

[kamnet]

The key problem was a couple of GRFs, (ECSMachw.grf and similar), no longer worked. As they were embedded I could not remove the faulty GRFs.

OpenTTD might have changed a few things in regards to NewGRFs since 2008, but for the most part
NewGRFs even from that far back should still be fully playable today. What particular problems were you having?

As far as removing and replacing, there is a way to do it, but when it comes to removing and replacing industries it could very likely break the whole scenario, so it is generally advised to start with a fresh heightmap. The downside being that as far as carefully geo-located places, you'll have to start over as well. Good news is that there's a few people who are trying to work on a way around this to make it better.

[peterloud]

Here is an example of the problem. When I try to load a scenario or game I get a missing files error. When I check the GRFs I get the file names. The problems seems to be with these ECSxxxxx GRFs

OTTD 2a.jpg (106.01 KiB) Viewed 951 times

I managed to find a playable development scenario without the ECSxxx files, so I am in a recoverable position. If I remember correctly these ECS GRFs had a lot of extra facilities which were interesting in a big game. It was great to play the game again after all these years.

However my idea of a large map 1024 x 512 or 2048 x 1024 was not s good as I expected. Yes, the environment etc, were great, but it was too big. It needed lots of trains, trucks and buses that took ages in real time to go from one place to another. Running the transport company was too much for one person, it needed and Railways Manager, an Airways Manager etc.etc.

I am still re-learing the game so I might have more thoughts about it in due course.

[peterloud]

Thanks for replying. I am slowly getting back into the game. Perhaps there is one issue with which you might be able to help, GRFs.

I want avoid spending a great deal of time trying out many GRFs then after and spending several hours playing then deciding that I don't want the GRF and having to discard the game because I can't remove the GRF. Can you, or anyone else, recommend any GRFs, or sets of GRFs. I am particularly interested in GRFs relating to England, for example I remember there being a GRF being about English, (British), roads, or British vehicles, trains, buildings or environment.

Any other information on developments in the past 16 years would be helpful too. Is it possible to to have a multi-player game with multiple players working for the same company?

[kkidslogin]

Thanks for replying. I am slowly getting back into the game. Perhaps there is one issue with which you might be able to help, GRFs.

I want avoid spending a great deal of time trying out many GRFs then after and spending several hours playing then deciding that I don't want the GRF and having to discard the game because I can't remove the GRF. Can you, or anyone else, recommend any GRFs, or sets of GRFs. I am particularly interested in GRFs relating to England, for example I remember there being a GRF being about English, (British), roads, or British vehicles, trains, buildings or environment.

Any other information on developments in the past 16 years would be helpful too. Is it possible to to have a multi-player game with multiple players working for the same company?

On multiplayer: Absolutely! OpenTTDCoop (A specific multiplayer playstyle) has died by now mostly, but it is still possible.

On GRFs: I don't know much about England GRFs (As an American), but these are some good GRFs I play with (Usually not all at once):

• FIRS 4
• AV8/AV8 Minimal SUPP WAS
• WAS
• NUTS Unrealistic Train Set
• NARS 2.5 /+ addons
• Bridge Renewal Set
• Road Hog
• North American Track Set
• U&Ratt Road Set

[peterloud]

What I find I dislike about OTTD is that too much is happening all at the same time.

I much prefer games where I can make carefully considered decisions and see how they work out. I'd rather build up a transport system and environment over several weeks of playing rather than have an fast-action game that is over in a few hours. I wish that there were more settings that allow me to reduce the rate of development.

Another irritation is that on my laptop display the sizes of the task bar and on-screen messages are terrible. My laptop display has a resolution of 3840 x 2160 and I find it that the task bar icons are far too small. After I've played the game a few more hours playing I'll know which icon is which, but I know that when I encourage friends to try the game they will have difficulty recognising the icons. If I change the resolution to 1920 x 1080 the task bar is great but the pop up windows fill the display. I don't remember this being such a problem in my 2008 playing the game.

[skc]

What I find I dislike about OTTD is that too much is happening all at the same time.

I much prefer games where I can make carefully considered decisions and see how they work out. I'd rather build up a transport system and environment over several weeks of playing rather than have an fast-action game that is over in a few hours. I wish that there were more settings that allow me to reduce the rate of development.

Another irritation is that on my laptop display the sizes of the task bar and on-screen messages are terrible. My laptop display has a resolution of 3840 x 2160 and I find it that the task bar icons are far too small. After I've played the game a few more hours playing I'll know which icon is which, but I know that when I encourage friends to try the game they will have difficulty recognising the icons. If I change the resolution to 1920 x 1080 the task bar is great but the pop up windows fill the display. I don't remember this being such a problem in my 2008 playing the game.

Version 14.0 has two features which deal with these two issues:
"Wallclock mode" allows you to change from the original calender mode to a 'wallclock' mode where you can slow (or even stop!!) the advance of the years.
Regarding the interface size: check the "Game Options" on the main menu screen - you can scale the icons & text up so that they are a comfortable size.

[peterloud]

Thanks skc for that information. There are more differences to the 2008 version that I knew than I realised.

The Game Scripts are new to me, unless I just didn't notice and use them in 2008. I think it will take a little time before I work out how to use then and what they do.

I should have noticed the changeable Interface Size. It was good being able to increase the size of the toolbar at the top. Although I now realise that the problem is the actual icons in the middle of the bar for trains, road vehicles, ships and aircraft. Those particular icons are unrecognizable when they are small. I'd prefer the simpler 2008 icons. The other problem is that as the Toolbar is increased in size so are the message windows, they almost fill my game window. I need to increase the toolbar size significantly but not the message windows. I assume tha they can not be unlinked.

I found the Wallclock bit but it was confusing and I couldn't change it to try out whatever it does.

Wallclock OTTD.JPG (133.09 KiB) Viewed 841 times

There's more to OTTD than meets the eye.

[2TallTyler]

The Timekeeping mode can only be chosen before starting a game. If you open the Settings from the main menu before starting a game, you can change the number of minutes per year from the default 12 to whatever you want, up to 10,080 minutes -- one week of real time! (And if you change this setting, the timekeeping mode will automatically change to Wallclock mode, which is required in order to change minutes per year.) Once in a Wallclock mode game, the minutes per year settingcan be changed at any time.

[ebla71]

What I find I dislike about OTTD is that too much is happening all at the same time.

I much prefer games where I can make carefully considered decisions and see how they work out. I'd rather build up a transport system and environment over several weeks of playing rather than have an fast-action game that is over in a few hours. I wish that there were more settings that allow me to reduce the rate of development.

There are options to stop the game completely and still build infrastructure, purchase vehicles, and set up orders while it is stopped.

Also consider to switch off automatic generation and closure of industries which you can then manually fund or build.

If your goal is more on the building of a network itself rather than the "economic simulation", you can also easily allow yourself "unlimited credit" now.

Feel free to ask further questions, as I pretty much also prefer a "build-and-watch" style of playing after a stressful work day rather than a fast-paced game, although I prefer continental Europe or overseas (North America, Australia, New Zealand) over other locations.

[kamnet]

Here is an example of the problem. When I try to load a scenario or game I get a missing files error. When I check the GRFs I get the file names. The problems seems to be with these ECSxxxxx GRFs

The error isn't that the files are broken, but that the files you used to create the scenario are missing. You likely have newer versions of these files which are not backwards compatible with the old ones. I believe ECS Vectors got an updates in 2010, 2011 and 2012.

I am still re-learing the game so I might have more thoughts about it in due course.

There is A LOT of things that have changed since 2008. Just some highlights for you:

- AIs: a lot more complicated and competitive, and more to choose from.
- GameScript: new ways to control how OpenTTD works.
- NewGRFs: you can now add up to 256 NewGRF sets simultaneously
- Objects: massive amounts of non-station decorations, can be used to supplement the looks of stations, industries and entire towns
- Railtypes: you can now run one or more sets that can provide a combined 64 types of rails
- New Roadtypes and Tramtypes (NRT): up to a combined 64 types of roads and tramrails, and vehicles that can run exclusively on specific types, including rural/unpaved roads, electrified roads for trolleybuses and trollytrucks, even water
- Road stops: new types of station designs for road vehicles and trams, similar to rail stations (often used with objects)
- Cargo Distribution (cargodist): new ways for passengers, mail and cargo to be distributed along connected networks to other destinations automatically
- Industries: Can include up to 64 types of cargoes and 128 industry buildings to choose from. FIRS 4, XIS and AXIS, among others, provide more industries and more complex chains for cargo transportation.
- Ships: can now go faster than 127 km/h, but so far only the recently updated Ekranoplan set takes advantage of it
- Ship pathfinding: bouys are no longer required for accurate movement to destinations
- Refit at station: most NewGRF vehicle sets now allow you to refit to other cargoes at the station rather than forcing empty vehicles to go to a depot to refit
- 32bpp colors: NewGRFs can now use 32bpp (24 million colors) instead of traditional 8bpp (256 colors)
- Full zoom/extra zoom: NewGRFs can now offer up 2x and 4x zoom levels for more pixels and additional details

[peterloud]

Thanks Guys,

You are being a great help. It looks like many things have changed since 2008, or perhaps I've just forgotten more than expected. I am making progress.

This afternoon I tried to find my old heightmap. I couldn't find that or the mapping files that I used to make it. They might still be around, but I have a lot of old computers and hard disks to search.

I did however find a good scenario file that has most of my work on it. Here is the bottom quarter of it to let you see what I did.

Northumberland Scenario 2 OTTD-w1200.jpg (242.46 KiB) Viewed 760 times

I deliberately kept towns small to give lots of room for transport infrastructure. Although on my 2040 x 1024 version it works out at around 30 tiles per mile which might be over doing it.

Here is another shot with more detail.

OTTD Blyth-2a.jpg

(466.73 KiB) Not downloaded yet

The picture above seems not to want to be shown. I'll just have to see what happens when I submit the message.

I have found several grf files relevant to UK. I haven't used the Wallclock feature yet, but I can now activate it. I have manage to reduce the number of towns and a few other basic effects. I haven't attempted to investigate the Game Scripts yet, just getting to grips with the basics is enough at the moment.

Once again thanks for your help.

[peterloud]

Hi Guys,

I think that you old hands would have a smile if you could see me struggling with rail signals. Before messing around with the old scenario I thought it wisest to check out the basics of small simple games. Years ago I managed to set up a long double track with lots of sections and local trains joining and leaving and lots of multi-track stations. It didn't always do as I wanted but most things worked. Today I was completely lost with signals.

All I wanted to do run Train 1 between Station A and Station B, and run Train 2 between Station B and Staion C. Surely this is the simplest set up imaginable. I failed. So I thought "Don't rush ahead, check the manual or some videos on internet". I still failed.

The first problem was that the turorials said that when I click on signals I'd get this,

Signals 2a.JPG (5.65 KiB) Viewed 700 times

I thought that looks familiar, I might be in with a chance and be able to work it out again. Alas, no, I got this,

Signals 1b copy.jpg (6.6 KiB) Viewed 700 times

I don't doubt that if you been using OTTD for the past few months it is all very familiar and the second little menu makes sense, but not for me.

Back to the manual.

[2TallTyler]

You can see the full signal menu by clicking on the rectangular Enlarge button in the top right corner of the Signal Selection toolbar, just to the right of the text.

The simplified menu shows only path signals, to avoid confusing new players with the full set of signals. Unfortunately, old tutorials show the whole menu and that can confuse people more, as you've discovered.

Here is a tutorial I really like which shows the simplified menu, as well as lots of other tips and reminders that may help you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZyh2v9Z0w

[peterloud]

Hi 2TallTyler,

That tutorial was excellent, far better than any other I have seen. It showed me some basic techniques that I missed years ago, or perhaps they are new. The bit on rail system and signals was very good. Once again it showed me things I didn't know years ago.

Just as important is that it is good for newbies. I want to persuade some friends to try OTTD, but I suspect that they might have found it intimidatingly diffiicult and given up. That tutorial will be a great help for them too.

Thanks.

[2TallTyler]

I'm glad it helped. Timberwolf is a great video presenter.

[peterloud]

Trying to resurrect my scenario is becoming kafkaesque. At times I wonder whether I am dreaming or just going mad.

Yesterday I spent all afternoon trying to understand rail signals. Years ago I had managed them reasonably well, although far from fully. This time I have been struggling to re-learn them. I have started a few 128 x 128 slow simple games so I could test various configurations. In spite of reading a few tutorials I was still struggling. Some of these tutorials looked very good and I am sure took a bit of careful preparation, but I still was having trouble understanding them. I am not normally regarded as a thicko, I have a fair bit of higher education in engineering, maths and IT. In the end I decided to try using the simplest Block Signal and work out the logic from first principles. I did better doing that than using the Path Signals which one turotial said, "They provide some great advantages over the block signals. In addition, they are easier to use."

Having made a little progress with a very simple rail & signal configuration I thought that I needed a break. I went back to looking though my 2008 scenario and game files. To my amazement some of them started to open. Days ago I got messages telling me I had missing GRF files. I had searched internet for them a number of times without success. I downloaded all sorts of things but could not find the ECSxxxxx.grf files that I needed. Then today they were there. I hadn't done anything new or attempted further online seraches. It was magic.

This is good. If I can find and open my earier devlopment files I might be able find a scenario or game that includes many extras including my old rail system. When I was developing the scenario I deliberatly did not want the rail tracks in the game. I preferred to leave clear open spaces so players had lots of room to develop their own rail system.

[peterloud]

I eventually found one of my old games that was working. Unfortunately it was from the 2048 x 1024 version which I think is too large. This is just a very small part of it.

OTTD Tynemouth-w1024.jpg (136.69 KiB) Viewed 547 times

and

OTTD South Shields.JPG

(1.15 MiB) Not downloaded yet

So far I have failed to find the bulk of my 1024 x 512 development files. That is a better size. Even that is too much for a normal game, but great for railway configurations. However roads and railways become inapproriately "steppy" when I try to place them in geographically correct positions.

Found them!, that is my 1024 x 512 development files, at least some of them.
I guess that this is one of the later files as it is well developed, and not much good for starting a game.

Blyth 1024-2.JPG

(2.29 MiB) Not downloaded yet

I deserve a beer tonight.

[jfs]

Yesterday I spent all afternoon trying to understand rail signals. Years ago I had managed them reasonably well, although far from fully. This time I have been struggling to re-learn them. I have started a few 128 x 128 slow simple games so I could test various configurations. In spite of reading a few tutorials I was still struggling. Some of these tutorials looked very good and I am sure took a bit of careful preparation, but I still was having trouble understanding them. I am not normally regarded as a thicko, I have a fair bit of higher education in engineering, maths and IT. In the end I decided to try using the simplest Block Signal and work out the logic from first principles. I did better doing that than using the Path Signals which one turotial said, "They provide some great advantages over the block signals. In addition, they are easier to use."

I wonder if you are perhaps overthinking it. Most setups with path signals are really simple and only require a few signals to achieve what might require two or three times as many signals in a block signalling setup.

What I would call the "golden rule" is that you should: Place signals where it makes sense for a train to stop and wait, and avoid placing signals where a stopped train would block a crossing path.
Or in other words, place signals before danger points, but not after.

You may have seen illustrations like this before too. Make sure you pay attention to where the signals are left out as much as where they are built.

Assumed right-hand drive, signals placed to the right of the track they apply to.

signals.png (9.62 KiB) Viewed 461 times

[peterloud]

Thanks for that jfs.

Now that I have been able to open briefly check out my earlier rail configurations I see that they are very simple, and along the lines you are suggesting. I think that I was currently a bit overwhelmed by the choice of signals and, as you say, overthinking it.

Now I can relax a play a gew games and try adding some railways.