Improved Town Industries

[peignenappe]

I've been playing with ITL houses, improved town industries and renewed village growth for the past 12 hours and really had a lot fun ! Great work

I played with different vehicles and trains sets then I noticed that OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles cannot carry waste cargo. Maybe ogfx+ cargo table doesnt include waste ?

Everything else worked fine ! Thanks

[2TallTyler]

Thanks!

I'm not familiar with how OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles is coded, but I suspect the issue may be that I have Waste flagged as "CC_BULK, CC_PIECE_GOODS, CC_COVERED", and I don't think original vehicles include any CC_COVERED cargos. But I'm no expert on how cargo classes work.

[peignenappe]

Anyway, there is a "keep default vehicles" setting that allows to transport waste in a coal truck.

Dude i thought of something while looking at my map zoomed out, the forests could have different shapes like your other industries.
It would be really nice looking compared to the original forest, just saying

[MagicBuzz]

Hello,

Not sure what happends exactly, but with JGRPP and CargoDist activated, waste always runs as "symetric". After a few time trucks stop unloading to the incinerator and come back to the city.
I changed the distribution logic from symetric to manual for mail, then did the same for waste, but the problem still occurs.

I'm playing with autoseparation rather than "load/unload" orders.

Order 1 : go to city
Order 2 : go to incinerator

I don't have this issue with other cargoes from other sets.

[DrKarotte]

Hello,

Not sure what happends exactly, but with JGRPP and CargoDist activated, waste always runs as "symetric". After a few time trucks stop unloading to the incinerator and come back to the city.
I changed the distribution logic from symetric to manual for mail, then did the same for waste, but the problem still occurs.

I'm playing with autoseparation rather than "load/unload" orders.

Order 1 : go to city
Order 2 : go to incinerator

I don't have this issue with other cargoes from other sets.

I started testing this New GRF, and I had similar issues:

A waste truck returned with waste into the city, thus making loss. However, according to the cargo overview in the vehicle window, the cargo originated from the station at the incinerator. After getting rid of the load and setting to "do not load", it worked fine. I later thought that there must have been houses in the catchment area of the incinerator. On the other hand, the waste should not have been loaded? I think that goods are only generated when there is a destination connected which accepts the cargo? A similar situation has been occured where a forest and a paper mill are inside the catchment area of one station and the forest began producing wood chips, which were loaded by a train which carried wood chips from another forest to this paper mill.

[Thrillville109]

I feel like something's up with how cargoes are given to each car using the North American Railway Set (NARS). The Mail Car can store food, a refrigerator car can hold Scrap Paper and Steel, Boxcars and Gondolas can hold grain, it's a mess all around when it comes to using the NARS rolling stock. If possible, could you fix this?

[Master Trams]

I seem to remember this set had industries tied to the in-game date, where certain industries only opened after a certain date... Am I misremembering this and actually thinking about a different set?

[2TallTyler]

I seem to remember this set had industries tied to the in-game date, where certain industries only opened after a certain date... Am I misremembering this and actually thinking about a different set?

Version 1 has this feature, but it requires industries to close and be spawned on their own, which is currently incompatible with the new production mechanics so I removed the feature.

[Argus]

I haven't tried this set with NARS, but wasn't the first set before there was any industrial newgrf, thus new cargos?

[Ruiluth]

Do industries in this GRF stop paying when their input buffers fill up? I created a new map and had a lot of iron trains delivering to a steel mill, and it was going great until my trains stopped making money. I checked and found that the steel mill had 73,000 tons of iron waiting, and couldn't take any more. I get why that might happen, but... does it have to...? Especially on large maps, the industries being spread out makes it very difficult to deliver both iron and coal to the same mill without massive infrastructure. I love this industry set, it's kind of ruined FIRS for me, even, but it feels like kind of a black box with no configuration options and little documentation.

Also:

I feel like something's up with how cargoes are given to each car using the North American Railway Set (NARS). The Mail Car can store food, a refrigerator car can hold Scrap Paper and Steel, Boxcars and Gondolas can hold grain, it's a mess all around when it comes to using the NARS rolling stock. If possible, could you fix this?

This is actually realistic. In the past (at least in America) perishable food was transported as express cargo on passenger trains, grain was transported in bags that were loaded into boxcars, and refrigerators were often run "dry" with boxcar loads, like paper or steel.

[2TallTyler]

Yes, if the cargo waiting is full at 65,535 units (yours might display differently at 73,000 using different units) more deliveries don't pay. That's not a base game behavior, not something I can control.

One solution in NewGRF to solve it would be to set some alternate maximum and automatically deplete the stockpile to that amount. I did this with boost supplies in Industries of the Caribbean -- for example, for the coffee plantation it's 'switch_stockpile_coffee_plantation' called by the 'produce_cargo_arrival' callback. But I haven't touched any of my NewGRFs in a while...too busy with IRL things and focusing on contributing to OpenTTD itself as the newest member of the development team. If anyone wants to add this and open a PR, I'll gladly merge it.

[Argus]

Hi, after a while I wanted to start playing with this again and I had trash instead of mail. It is normal? I have to admit that I put these graphics in a scenario where there weren't any, but unfortunately there was a vanilla industry built - but scenarios without pre-made industries almost don't exist

[2TallTyler]

Yes, version 2 of this GRF replaces Mail with Waste. Not sure if it’s a good idea, but I did it.

[Argus]

I don't like it, it looks weird. I keep imagining how the landfill and piles of garbage are growing between the beautiful historic houses at the bus stop Anyone want trash in historic parts of town? It's utter stupidity.

[Argus]

Next problem. I like to play with the Villages is Villages script, but this script requires mail to grow cities. I assume that the problem will also be with other similar scripts, i.e. apart from those where the industry can be set.

[LaChupacabra]

I assume that the problem will also be with other similar scripts

This is not a problem of the set, but of the scripts, because the scripts are created taking into account the existing sets, not vice versa. Besides, adapting to existing scripts would be very limiting and wouldn't allow to freely create new interesting solutions..

trash instead of mail

Well, I like the idea of the waste instead mail. However, there are two problems:
1. Possibility to carry waste from city to city - I like black humor but I think it can be a bit of an exaggeration. So maybe it would be better if garbage was generated in landfills near cities, like in FIRS? There, however, recycling depots become OP quite quickly due to very high production levels, and they look strange in city centers. In terms of graphics, I think the farms have two tiles that could fit quite well.
2. Too high requirements for the location of the Recycling Center - Very often not only this industry was not created during map generation, but I couldn't even fund it anywhere because there was already some other secondary industry everywhere.

[Argus]

I assume that the problem will also be with other similar scripts

This is not a problem of the set, but of the scripts, because the scripts are created taking into account the existing sets, not vice versa. Besides, adapting to existing scripts would be very limiting and wouldn't allow to freely create new interesting solutions..

Sure, I agree.
Farms could also accept waste (bio-waste as fertilizer) I would say ITI has more to offer and is still too similar to the Vanilla industry, it shouldn't be. For example, why not have incinerators producing electricity by burning waste in addition to the recycling center.

[Thrillville109]

I feel like something's up with how cargoes are given to each car using the North American Railway Set (NARS). The Mail Car can store food, a refrigerator car can hold Scrap Paper and Steel, Boxcars and Gondolas can hold grain, it's a mess all around when it comes to using the NARS rolling stock. If possible, could you fix this?

I forgot to mention this, but the Wood Chips car doesn't actually carry wood chips in this mod either.

[Limyx826]

In my current map of 512 x 512 with a setting of normal no. of towns and 1/4 cities. There were like 2-3 of a type of secondary industry (i.e. Food Processing Plant, Steel Mill, Sawmill, Oil Refinery, Paper Mill I ain't sure this count as tertiary or secondary) across the map and 1 of a single type of tertiary industry (i.e. Building Materials Factory, Goods Factory). I guess this happen due to the the requirement of secondary industry required cities and the low number of cities in a single map.

Screenshot 2023-03-18 011849.png (39.66 KiB) Viewed 47911 times

So what are the recommended settings for future games?

[erazortt]

Ok, I know I'm probably gonna get crucified by the creator of this mod... But I need to make my voice heared.
I'm only a casual player of this game, but I like to give it a spin every now and then. Now I found out that the v2 of ITI and ITL have a completly different mechanics than what I came to get accustomed to and I must say I preferred the old v1.
I like having mail and waste, even though its quirky and requires the use ITL. However it so happens that I like ITL as well. Also the v1 ITI had a year when each industry was "discovered" and I really liked this feature when playing early games. The v2 appears to not have this feature anymore?
Now what bugs me a lot, is that both v1 of ITI and ITL are not available anymore. So, I compiled the very last commit of both from github myself and use them like that, but wouldn't it be possible to handle this like FIRS does, and also have the old versions still available?