Pendolino - ECML

[Dave]

But they're not sane, these ideas - converting a converted heavy rail line BACK to heavy rail? Why would this ever happen? How would it improve services in and around Manchester?

[Pilot]

But they're not sane, these ideas - converting a converted heavy rail line BACK to heavy rail? Why would this ever happen? How would it improve services in and around Manchester?

These claims were made by me and only me. Many people around Manchester believe that they should never have been converted to Light Rail. I live in Sale and go to School in Knutsford and I get a School Bus there. One of the reasons I don't get train, is because there are no Direct services and the Service via Stockport is always delayed due to congestion at Stockport. The line through Sale used to be used by the Trains to Chester and Altrincham fairly Frequently and can have a much higher frequency if needed, hence it once being 4-Tracks. Manchester Central can be converted to a Rail Station and a New Exhibition centre can be built elsewhere, especially under a new Tower being built or something. I was only talking about Mayfield for HS2.

[TheGrew]

Alan having read the topic on the UK rail forums you got banned for, and your pretty similar comments here I would suggest 2 things:
Firstly download chrills patch pack (or cargodist) with the UKRS2 set and a UK map, then set aside time to build a replica of the entire uk rail system (starting from 1835) then once you have expanded and built your network please tell me how you maintain profitability once you hit the 40s and then right through to the 80s WITHOUT cutting services.
Secondly instead of trying to argue your point on forums why don't you write some letters to the DFT and rail operators putting forward your points and your suggestions for improvements to the rail network, being the government they will probably want financial justification with some form of cost benefit analysis however that shouldn't be a problem assuming your suggestions would add real benefit to the rail network.

[61653]

maybe they could link the main stations as well

They're doing that with the Castlefield curve: Something that I'm not sure is neccessary in the grand scheme of things- supposedly there's a need for Calder Valley services to run to the airport, so they're building the curve to allow services to run through Victoria and round the new curve to Deansgate and on to Piccadilly and the Airport- This of course means there'll be even more need for the very expensive quadrupling of the Deansgate-Piccadilly viaduct. That will also spell the end for the Star & Garter on Fairfield Street: a great pub where I've had many a great night!

[Geo Ghost]

Alan Fry has actually gone and got himself banned from RailUk forums. Nuff Said. Don't feed the troll people, don't feed the troll.

I was unfairly banned based on the libelous slurs of the people there, and for god sake I AM NOT A TROLL!!!

All I have is a interest in the railways


How dare you promote unfair slurs against me and make untrue claims, I you think I am a troll, then you are one yourself

Woah guys, calm down.
Let's not let it decent to that level without knowing any details of one another.
So what if Alan is banned form RailUK? This isn't RailUK, it's tt-forums. Who cares so long as he doesn't do anything that breaks the rules.
Ok, I may not agree with the majority of Alan's views and opinions, but that's not reason to let things decent into finger pointing and insults - goes for both.

Also, neither of you are trolls. Why? Because I'm the damn troll around here. Now hush with all that and let's get back to debating about... actually, what on earth are we debating about now?

Anyway, an interesting thing crossed my mind earlier on why the ECML can't really have the top line-speed increased which would make the Pendolinos rather useless as a 'faster' option. Not to mention they are shorter than the HSTs and 225 sets... anyway!
Top speed is about 115-125mph approx on the mainline with '70' on the 'slow' lines. The express commuters, (365s, 321s and sometimes 317s) have a max speed of 100. This just about fits in with the timetable with those units usually running on the mainline between Kings Cross and Knebworth (sometimes further than that depending on traffic) and the non-stoppers to Cambridge and further run on the mainline right the way through to the Hitchin junction.

If the line speed were increased, the express commuters would, in theory, hold up the faster traffic as they can't keep up with the max line speed like the express 'intercity' services could. I must emphasize the THEORY there as this is just something that has crossed my mind.
Probably not much in that one really but still, interesting thought.


on another note, East Coast from Stevenage to Kings Cross usually takes 20 minutes. used to be advertised as 18 or 19 minutes online.
So can someone please work out, how some of their non-stop services are not advertised to take up to 30-35 minutes?! That's almost the same time as a stopper service. That one has really baffled me.

[61653]

on another note, East Coast from Stevenage to Kings Cross usually takes 20 minutes. used to be advertised as 18 or 19 minutes online.
So can someone please work out, how some of their non-stop services are not advertised to take up to 30-35 minutes?! That's almost the same time as a stopper service. That one has really baffled me.

This is something that's crept into most timetables over the last few years: 'padding' to allow for delays etc., so that there's less likelihood of the TOCs incurring penalties for late running.

[Dave]

But they're not sane, these ideas - converting a converted heavy rail line BACK to heavy rail? Why would this ever happen? How would it improve services in and around Manchester?

These claims were made by me and only me. Many people around Manchester believe that they should never have been converted to Light Rail. I live in Sale and go to School in Knutsford and I get a School Bus there. One of the reasons I don't get train, is because there are no Direct services and the Service via Stockport is always delayed due to congestion at Stockport. The line through Sale used to be used by the Trains to Chester and Altrincham fairly Frequently and can have a much higher frequency if needed, hence it once being 4-Tracks. Manchester Central can be converted to a Rail Station and a New Exhibition centre can be built elsewhere, especially under a new Tower being built or something. I was only talking about Mayfield for HS2.

But this is my problem - "Manchester Central can be converted to a Rail Station"...

Can it!? For how much money!?

[Pilot]

But this is my problem - "Manchester Central can be converted to a Rail Station"...

Can it!? For how much money!?

It can, however, I don't know how much for. It would have been better for Manchester if it had been built as an Underground tbh. The roads which the Metrolink goes down can get really congested and there isn't much room for Expansion. If it had been underground there would be.

[Ameecher]

No, just no.

That is all I can really say.

[61653]

Of course it'd be good if many English cities had adopted metro systems in the late 19th/early 20th centuries or even later, like A LOT of European cities did. Or even if they'd not been so hasty to get rid of their tramways. But one of the reasons Metrolink was built was to replace the outdated infrastructure on some of the suburban lines; to link the stations; and to save money on maintaining the infrastructure on those routes that required overhaul. Had they spent billions on building an underground system in the early 90s rather than the trams, there would have been serious questions on why such sums were being spent- Manchester and Sheffield are lucky they got what they did, considering the furore over the Edinburgh trams and the abandonment of plans for Leeds Supertram, Merseytram and the Bristol system.

[Kevo00]

But this is my problem - "Manchester Central can be converted to a Rail Station"...

Can it!? For how much money!?

It can, however, I don't know how much for. It would have been better for Manchester if it had been built as an Underground tbh. The roads which the Metrolink goes down can get really congested and there isn't much room for Expansion. If it had been underground there would be.

And there is a pot of limitless capital where? Transport enthusiast logic is such fun. Sure I'd love to see York get a tram system or even an Underground, but it just ain't going to happen, and certainly not in the present climate. Certainly don't think they should re-open the old railway station just inside the walls just because there used to be a railway station there.

[Pilot]

They should have built the underground back in the '70's when it was first put forward as an Idea. For those of you who don't know search Picc-Vic Tunnel. It would have been much easier to expand such network especially within the City Centre.

[Dave]

Yeah but it didn't, did it? You've introduced a preposterous suggestion to what was otherwise a serious, realistic conversation. And that's why I'm surprised haha.

[Geo Ghost]

With the mess the government and private transport companies have made of the railways for sometime now, the cost of fixing it would be would be a large amount. Secondly it is about time we thought of the railways as less a business and more a public service. Lastly I would not bother sending a letter to them becuase they would just ignore them

You're really not helping yourself lad...

[TheGrew]

I think it really boils down to this, would you rather the NHS or a better rail network?
And finally Alan, have you genuinely tried to send a letter to the DFT or are you just being defeatest and believing the worst. Finally if there is so much wrong with this country and you genuinely believe you can do a better job why don't you stand for election?

[TheGrew]

I fear however Alan that you missed my greatest point which is instead of just talking about making changes, why don't you take steps to actually make changes, if you are as passionate about this as you seem you shouldn't let anything stop you from doing it.

[Ameecher]

You can stand as an independent, we can plainly see that you won't ever be PM.

[Chris]

You can stand as an independent, we can plainly see that you won't ever be PM.

Why independent, I am sure they would accept your membership. Other transport policies to note are carpeting the motorways and banning tractors from driving along roads as they can use fields.

[Geo Ghost]

You're really not helping yourself lad...

I am just reponding a question?

Check my post again. I am referring to the number of mistakes in your post
Some of it was totally unreadable.

[Chris]

What does repond mean?