Tropic Refurbishment Set: v0.3c RELEASED!!

[uzurpator]

Try to attach some wagons to the CT60

They will do a livery override - which will in turn cancel the wagon speed limit.

As for DMU/EMU - provide models/stats and find a coder. I am willing to waste some extra time on this set

[fonso]

Nice

Thanks for the hint. Unfortunately I don't know any suiting MUs or their stats. There are quite a few MUs in other sets though - for example the US set. Couldn't some of them be ported to the tropic set? It seems to be impossible to load two train grfs in the same game, at least in OpenTTD. Of course a simple aggregation of US and tropic set would be half as fun, because there are passenger cars with unlimited speed in the US set. But some of the speed limited special freight wagons and of course certain MUs would fit quite well into the tropic set, too. More freight cars with limited refitting capability would also make that "box car for everything else" issue less monotonous.

Or is porting vehicles from one set to another considered blasphemous here?

[wallyweb]

Or is porting vehicles from one set to another considered blasphemous here?

Not so much blasphemous as tedious. Permissions and graphics must be secured from the authors of the other sets and then the code may have to be revised to fit the target set. Then there is also the consideration that the desired vehicles might not fit in with spirit of the target set. The authors will always give consideration when a good case is made for the suggestion and they will also give good reasons for their final decisions. So, in short, the answer is "No", its not blasphemous.

[fonso]

OK, let's see ...

Permissions and graphics must be secured from the authors of the other sets and then the code may have to be revised to fit the target set.

Those people don't like attaching licenses to their graphics or even making them free as in speech, do they? It would simplify the task at hand a lot. But I see; I have to find the author(s) of the US set. On the other hand there is a small text saying "licensed under GNU licenses" in the in-game description of the US train set (version .87.1). I guess they mean the GPL or the LGPL, so there shouldn't be much of a problem if the tropic set's license is compatible with that.

Then there is also the consideration that the desired vehicles might not fit in with spirit of the target set. The authors will always give consideration when a good case is made for the suggestion and they will also give good reasons for their final decisions.

OK, I'll make a proposal: I would like to see the following MUs from the US set in the tropical set: The doodlebug (introduced 1920), the BUdd RDC (1943), the M-2 "Cosmopolitan" (1973) and the "Colorado"(2005). Visually, I think they'd fit the spirit quite well. Their stats have to be slightly adapted though - they're too strong and would make veritable replacements for the larger engines of their respective times. Especially the M-2's speed, the Budd's TE and the Colorado's TE and power should be reduced. Also the "powered wagons" used with several of them are too strong and should not be adapted. Another solution would be to introduce them later than in the US set so that they compete with later and more powerful engines of the tropical set. Finally the prices and running costs need some adaption.
With those engines there'd be a nice selection of local passenger trains to connect all those small desert villages that don't grow without food and water. At the moment the only engine which could do that profitably is the RMd55.

Now about the coding. I have written some code for other things before and I might be able to do that myself. That GRF thing is a horrible jungle though ...

[wallyweb]

Those people don't like attaching licenses to their graphics or even making them free as in speech, do they? It would simplify the task at hand a lot. But I see; I have to find the author(s) of the US set. On the other hand there is a small text saying "licensed under GNU licenses" in the in-game description of the US train set (version .87.1). I guess they mean the GPL or the LGPL, so there shouldn't be much of a problem if the tropic set's license is compatible with that.

It's more along the lines of good manners. Licensing aside, it's nice to ask first. Start with krtaylor. He manages the USSet and probably knows who to contact.

The second part of your reply looks good. Now all you have to do is wait for Lifeblood and/or uzurpator to respond.

[uzurpator]

fonso:

You by default have a permission for the second version MP54, M2 and both Colorados since It was me who has drawn* them in US set

While I don't think they fit all that well into TRS (i specifically avoided any US locos since US is well represented in GRFdom) its not a problem to add them as a seperate grf or by modifying the current.

Determine ID taken by TRS and then all others are to be taken by say - Tropical MU-lti Madness set

*MP54 is based on heavyweight coach by me.

[fonso]

OK, I started fiddling with that NFO file, but with little success so far. First I realized that the Rmd55 actually doesn't expire completely but reappears around 1964. That left me a little confused. Then I thought that the actual problem is that there aren't any locos comparable to the early steamers regarding running cost. An engine about as cheap as the ED1 and about as weak would be a cool thing to have later in the game. Like that not only small towns could be served but also small industries. I haven't found a solution for that so far.

Now I also discovered that the CT60 will add an "end wagon" to its train, but will not do so in front of an additional engine. Now I need at least 4 CT60 to pull a 12 tile passenger train at 300km/h with realistic acceleration and it just doesn't look good like that. I tried to change it but I can't seem to find out how that end wagon is done in the first place. It isn't an action 3 livery override if I understood that right, because livery override works for a class of vehicles (by vehicle ID) and not by position. So I thought it must be an action 2 variable thing, but that's poorly documented and I can't find out how it works. Can someone give me a hint?

[DaleStan]

How variational action 2 works? What part of the documentation is poor?

[fonso]

"Poorly documented" was perhaps a little strong, sorry for that. The documentation is actually quite extensive, only the language might be somewhat crude. I don't get this page though: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... n2Vehicles

How do I form "ranges" from these things, as detailed here: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... nalAction2 ?

Also if someone can fill in the question marks in the following snippet of code, I'll be very grateful.

(...sprites...)
// cargo-id 23: engine front
2770 * 9 02 00 23 01 01 00 00 00 00
// cargo-id 24: passenger car 1
2771 * 9 02 00 24 01 01 01 00 01 00
// cargo-id 25: passenger car 2
2772 * 9 02 00 25 01 01 02 00 02 00
// cargo-id 26: mail car 1
2773 * 9 02 00 26 01 01 03 00 03 00
// cargo-id 27: mail car 2
2774 * 9 02 00 27 01 01 04 00 04 00
// cargo-id 28: engine back mail
2775 * 9 02 00 28 01 01 05 00 05 00
// cargo-id 29: engine back passenger
2776 * 9 02 00 29 01 01 06 00 06 00
(... more sprites ...)
// cargo-id 2A: symmetrix pax
2786 * 9 02 00 2A 01 01 00 00 00 00
// cargo-id 2B: symmetric mail
2787 * 9 02 00 2B 01 01 01 00 01 00
// cargo-id 2C: decide by position in consist, one decision range;
// 24 (pax1) if ???, default 2A (symm pax)
2788 * 14 02 00 2C 81 40 00 FF 01 24 00 01 01 2A 00
// cargo-id 2D: decide by position in consist, two decision ranges;
// 29 (engine back pax) if ???, 25 (pax2) if ???, default 2C
2789 * 18 02 00 2D 81 40 08 FF 02 29 00 00 00 25 00 01 01 2C 00

[DaleStan]

I don't get this page though: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... n2Vehicles

It lists the vehicle-specific variables, and what values can be found in them. What's not to get?

How do I form "ranges" from these things, as detailed here: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... nalAction2?

Exactly the way it says. With the appropriate <min>s and <max>es.

// 24 (pax1) if (var 40)&0xFF is in the range 01..01, default 2A (symm pax)
2788 * 14 02 00 2C 81 40 00 FF 01 24 00 01 01 2A 00
// cargo-id 2D: decide by position in consist, two decision ranges;
// 29 (engine back pax) if ((var 40)>>8)&0xFF is in the range 00..00, 25 (pax2) if ((var 40)>>8)&0xFF is in the range 01..01, default 2C
2789 * 18 02 00 2D 81 40 08 FF 02 29 00 00 00 25 00 01 01 2C 00

Adjusted appropriately.

[fonso]

Thanks a lot, now I understand. What I hadn't found out is that the shifting, byte selection and && stuff was to be done on the parameters of the range, not the result of the if-clause. Now it even makes sense .

[fonso]

OK, here's my first try at grfs. I modified the CT60 a little.
The manufacturer now provides three versions of the engine; one for the front, one in the middle of the train, one for the back. Basically they're all the same except for the looks. But there are some things to note when using those beasts. Due to the nature of turbine engines it's advisable to place at least one mail car in front of any passenger cars if you line up multiple of them at the front of the train. Otherwise the manufacturer won't take any liability for ear damage or the like. For the same reason it's not advisable to put the engines between passenger cars, you can, however happily put as many engines as you like to the end of the train. Also, due to strange technical reasons the axes of passenger and mail cars only line up nicely if you put a mail car first and a passenger car afterwards. This excludes the very end of the train, though.

Also the CT60 has more power now, so that three of them are enough to pull a 12 tile train and 1 is enough to pull a 3 tile train at 300 km/h. The running cost has been adjusted accordingly.
I'll post the grf and the commented nfo file here. I hope that's OK for you.

PS: That NFO language is really cool, but you should have used this one. Then it'd be turing-complete and perhaps I'd be able to query the ID of the previous vehicle in the consist

[DaleStan]

PS: That NFO language is really cool, but you should have used this one.

You're welcome to work on making TTDPatch read that one, either compiled or not. (Well, you have to compile/link it somehow, to get the sprites in where they belong.)

[fonso]

It would be cool to have a version of this set compatible with some kind of new industries (ECS or PBI). Actually it wouldn't be a big deal as most of the wagons already handle the right cargo. The main problem is that ECS redefines the water cargo ID, so there is no wagon to transport water anymore. Apart from that some other cargo IDs simply aren't mapped to wagons, but if you use a minimal configuration of ECS that isn't much of a problem.

Also a electric high speed train with livery override would be cool to have later in the game. The CT60 is cool but a little more choice would be great. Is there a commented version of the NFO file around somewhere? Figuring out all that stuff from the raw hex codes takes its time (if you're not DaleStan who can probably read NFO like a book and will instantly start flaming me now).

And by the way: There is a brainfuck interpreter written in C

[NutsnBolts]

Unbelievably corny as it is, I'd just like to pop in and say that this set is superb - mainly 'cause you get Garratts, I must confess, which inevitably dominate all my services and have me humming "Land of Hope and Glory" (Manchester engineering at its finest, don'tcha y'know ). However, I'm curious - is it still being updated, or have the developers been consumed by the lethargy that affects us all when confronted with gargantuan tasks? Not to prod, you understand, I'm just genuinely interested; I even occasionally think of attempting to learn how to code .grfs, perhaps with a view to adding in some of the true heavyweights (AD60s, Rhodesian 20/20As and SAR GLs ), before remembering its difficult and I'm useless at such things!

[DJ Nekkid]

It would be cool to have a version of this set compatible with some kind of new industries (ECS or PBI). Actually it wouldn't be a big deal as most of the wagons already handle the right cargo. The main problem is that ECS redefines the water cargo ID, so there is no wagon to transport water anymore. Apart from that some other cargo IDs simply aren't mapped to wagons, but if you use a minimal configuration of ECS that isn't much of a problem.

"just" use property 28 and 29 in the action 0, instead of the 1D bitmask, and it shouldnt be a problem. I.E. water is liquid, and will be transported in a tanker (hex value of 40 iirc). And with the use of a translation table you can assign almost all cargoes to (a) spriteset(s).

The clue here is to dont let it be tooo specialized. For example, plastic is both liquid and piece goods. So if u add a wagon (typical silo wagon) with 28 \wx40 29 \wx81 it will transort everything with the liquid bit set, but it wont transport "piece goods"-only goods.

[uzurpator]

If there is a willing coder, I will happily add PBI/ECS compatibility wagons. Just as a notice :>

[DJ Nekkid]

when im done with the 2CC set can i help out i assume...

[London]

CT60 is not strong enough

[Badger]

CT60 is not strong enough

Not a particulary helpful post in a topic that's been dead for a year. I see you're new here, may I suggest you read the forum rules before posting again.