General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

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hertogjan
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by hertogjan »

Illegal_Alien wrote:And we had an almost head to head accident;

(image)
The goodstrain had propane tanks.
And the almost-accident happened in an urban area. I don't want to think about what happens if such a train catches fire and explodes, especially there.

I think it's time for two things:
1. Avoid running trains with dangerous goods through urban areas. Since the Betuweroute is finished now, such trains should be using that route, since it runs through somewhat less densely populated areas. Moreover the signalling and safety on this new line is better. This also leads me to the next point...
2. Get rid of the old ATB system. The problem with that safety system is that it doesn't work below 40 km/h. In particular, it doesn't prevent trains from passing a red signal if it drives less than 40 km/h. And especially where a lot of train routes meet (so where accidents are more likely to happen), at stations, speeds are generally limited to 40 km/h. That this leads to dangerous situations is obvious: Almost all collisions in the Netherlands between trains seem to happen near stations.
There should be a new system which is able to stop trains when accidently passing a red signal. Such systems are available, but the majority of the rail network still use the old ATB system. If the new systems would be used, a lot of accidents and almost-accidents will be prevented.
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Illegal_Alien »

As far i know they are putting in new systems. If i am correct ETCS (European Train Control System) will be replacing the ATB system. On some parts of newly build "bogen" (See list). Its already installed next to ATB but not activated. The following lines are if i am correct already equiped with ETCS:

- Utrechtboog / Amsterdam – Utrecht (ETCS level 2 + Signals + ATB-EG)
- Betuweroute (ETCS Level 2)
- HSL-Zuid (ETCS Level 2 with level 1 fallback)
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Hertog-Dixi »

To Get rid of the ATB is cost related.
ATB Nieuwe Generatie is much safer to work with but it's just to expensive to build it everywhere...
And for the new Betuweroute not al the locomotives have the new safety system required for the Betuweroute, and not al the traindrivers have the required certificates for the route...

But for me as a learning cargo traindriver this is what we call a "gierende hartkleppen moment" but luckily there where no accident.
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Illegal_Alien »

I know that ProRail also had something called ATB++ ?

Btw here a nice picture of the different systems in Europe:
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Hertog-Dixi »

I think (not sure) this the old ATB but with a safety that you can not drive past a red signal under 40 km/u.
But it's only in use around Amsterdam if i'm not mistaking...
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Marco »

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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by chevyrider »

Hertog-Dixi wrote:I think (not sure) this the old ATB but with a safety that you can not drive past a red signal under 40 km/u.
But it's only in use around Amsterdam if i'm not mistaking...
You are right.
Next step is upgrading the old "ATB" with the feature that you can never pass a red signal, even in the not now protected 40 km\h areas.

We also get a system to look ahead some 7 blocks to anticipate our speed.
We then can see if a slower train is ahead and adjust speed to get a more smoother and comfortable drive.

With the ERTMS system , signals will be removed.
You get double pointers in the speedometer.
One needle shows actual speed, the other the desired speed for your brake-distance.
When you keep your speed lower than what the last one shows , you can always stop in time.
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Hyronymus »

I can't imagine the NS refitting all current stock for ERTTS, chevyrider. Are there preliminary plans on what stock will get ERTMS?
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Illegal_Alien »

I only know that a V-IRM is 25kV ready (And maybe ERMTS/ETCS?) It only needs to have some components.
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by chevyrider »

Hyronymus wrote:I can't imagine the NS refitting all current stock for ERTTS, chevyrider. Are there preliminary plans on what stock will get ERTMS?
Trains have a life span of about 40 years.
They have to install the new safety system there for.
I heard that all old ATB-systems have to work also under 40 km/h within 2 years..
But this will be a temporally solution.
If you want that trains run closer together, you have to get rid of the old block system which separates trains in distances of at least 1400 meters.
In practice this is doubled, cause no engineer wishes to drive constantly with the sight on a yellow signal ahead.
So we slow down a bit and make it two blocks, there by we only pass green signals on the mainlines.
The ATB only can display speeds of 40, 60, 80, 130 and 140 or more.
When local-track-speed is 90, it show 130 km/h , which gives a safety gap of 40 km/h.
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by chevyrider »

Illegal_Alien wrote:I only know that a V-IRM is 25kV ready (And maybe ERMTS/ETCS?) It only needs to have some components.
You're right, the ABV3/4 carriages of the VIRM (THE ONE WITH THE PANTOGRAPH) are prepared to get the additional transformer.
This is a huge heavy component.
You can see that the suspension is build for it.
On the moment the buffer height is some 5 till 10 centimeters higher than the rest of the train.
That will be normal after the placing of the transformer.
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Illegal_Alien »

Pictures found of the Veolia GTW:

Image

Image
source: http://www.beneluxspoor.net
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Illegal_Alien »

Train got hit by mobile crane;

Few slightly wounded;

Image

Image

Image

Image

Source: http://kazerneosdorp.web-log.nl/ (dutch)

And for Protos lovers; on 10 sept. 2007 they will be in service next to some Plan V`s and DH-1`s (Veenexxpress). So a nice combination of trains :P
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by XeryusTC »

And for Protos lovers
Do those even exist?
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Illegal_Alien »

Yes i am one of them :)
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Illegal_Alien »

NS has presented his newest trains; picture can be found here; http://www.anp-photo.com/search.pp

use "Sprinter" as searchword. These will be used to replave the Plan V / T. An additional 64 are bought (32 4part and 32 6 part) Build by Siemens and Bombardier.
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by DeletedUser21 »

Very nice! :D Good pictures. Too bad there aren't many of them as of yet. :P

However I heard something about new doubledeck trains aswell. What's up with that? :)
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Illegal_Alien »

The same as the ones we already have.
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Purno »

What's with the boxes underneath the seats in that sprinter? Those suck, can't put my feet underneath the seats anymore :(
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Re: General Dutch and Belgium Transport Talk

Post by Illegal_Alien »

And here is a Bombardier RandstadRail Metro in construction:

Image

Looking sexy 8)
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