Eurobahn Project [OTTD]

[AlexG]

Hello!

I'm "working" on a project (I will start it from 1 Oct), by recreating the real railway (and roads, airports,...) system from Europe. It's not the first time doing this (last time I didn't quite finishing it because some problems with grfs). Besides that, I will reproduce industries and touristic areas. Shortly, everything I can.
I'm using this version of OTTD: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=58420 ...and I thank to Cirdan and everyone working on that project.

This is the list with newgrfs involved in this project:
http://imageshack.us/a/img545/5851/sjnc.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img405/2233/2v39.png

Besides those I will include:
ai_swedish_7_3
airportasphalt
alexandra palace
CD Set
CSD TramSet
Dutch TramSet
Fences
FakeAirports
VAST Fences + Infrastructure
FIRS

The heightmap used it does include the whole Scandinavia, England, Mediterranean Sea, a part of Russia (Moscow, Sankt Petersburg) and half of Spain.
I'm not 100% happy with this heightmap because I wanted something more expanded (with grater distance between cities) and still to include Scandinavia (without a huge part of Atlantic Ocean) but I didn't found any...

My first question is: what newGRF from that list are useless because they are contained in another GRF Set ?
Second: Any other ideas what I could use for this project (Train Sets, idea, etc...)
Third: Would it be more interesting to use FIRS or ECS (I've never played with FIRS, just tested it and as it was explained, industries are build according to years, but I would start above 1975, so coal mines, cement works, I don't know if would be available) and on the other hand, ECS are old and I've had some problems with ECS vectors...


Until then, I will post 2-3 things or questions here and hopefully, afterwards, lots of screens

[TinyMusic]

Finally someone want to start this project! I've been waiting for someone to start this, and even tried to start one myself, though I didn't get far

Why don't you use Spring Patch Pack instead? It doesn't have custom bridgeheads, but it does have Cargodist, signals on bridges/tunnels, timetables and a plethora of other cool features. It also has the extra-large-map patch, which you can use to make huge maps (bigger than 2048 ^ 2), so you can use my 4096 ^ 2 Europe Heightmap that you can find in BaNaNaS. (Only problem is that there are no rivers and a that a few lakes are messed up).

I'm very supportive of this project and I would also like to contribute to develop this map as well. I would suggest if you upload a WIP scenario file often so users on this forum can view and edit them.

Maybe I should also start getting some buildings from 3D Warehouse to develop a European NewGRF building set (Sweden is not the only country in Europe you know).

[kamnet]

I'm not certain Spring 2013 Patch Pack is the best bet to go with if you're wanting to use either FIRS or ECS. There have been some problems with both settings and costs. There's an edited version of FIRS that is being distributed by the author of Spring 2013 Patch Pack, but I'm not certain I want to use that myself. In my game I'm about to start, I'm actually going to just accept the issues between the standard FIRS and SPP.

2CC Train Set will also include the vehicles from 2CC Subway, so you don't need the latter.
ISR/DWE NewObjects contain everything that's in DWE NewObjects, so you don't need the latter.
You can't use both OpenTTD+ Airports and Combined Airport Set.
You have both OpenTTD+ Trees and Stolen Trees loaded, you should pick one or the other.
You have too many rail NewGRFs loaded. You have Serbian narrow gauge plus two other NG sets that will all override each other, in addition to Serbian Normal Gauge rail and Useless Tracks. You also have NuTracks, which will use up all 16 available rail slots. I would either choose just NuTracks, or both the Serbian Normal and Narrow Gauge rails plus Useless Tracks. You can't have them all in this case.
CS Stations - extra will not load in OpenTTD.
There is a newer version of Industrial Stations Renewal available unless you're going to use an older patchpack or TTDPatch, in which case, continue to use version 0.8.2 There are also newer versions of Total Town Replacement Set, BK Enhanced Tunnels, Ikarus Bus Set and NewShips available.
If you're going to use Total Bridge Renewal Set, remember to disable the bridges and roads in Total Town Replacement Set.
Also, if you're going to use UK roads, you may be interested in using Quast65's version of TBRS sprites that have UK roads. Unfortunately, you have to compile them yourself since he didn't.
German Road Vehicles may not play nicely with the other vehicle sets. I haven't checked compatibility against the other RVs you're using.
If you're using Modular Locomotive Sheds, you may also be interested in using the MLS Depot as well. Or, not, since you can use MLS to cover up any type of depot you use.
I can't remember quite well on this one, but if "NewDepots" is the ship depot, then it's going to not work right in OpenTTD or be over-ridden by the depot in ISR. If it's a train depot, then you'll need to load it after any train sets or track sets that provide custom depots. Either way, if it were me, I'd not use it at all.

Suggested NewGRFs you don't have yet:
MariCo v0.31 if you're interested in adding new eyecandy for ships, as well as a new style of dock.
Since you have both CS, Serbian and UK-related stuff, you might be interested in the corresponding tram sets.
Polish Building Set offers a real nice eastern/central European flavor to buildings. You might also like UK Town and w2w for more British & Western European style.

[YNM]

Depends on what gameplay you wanted - if you want it hard you may use FIRS, if you want it easy you may use ECS. I'm not sure of RussianSPP problem with FIRS through.

Anyway, I'm recommending to use Stolen Trees (you can lick the trees !) and for the rails you might want the serbian things. NuTracks doesn't have a NG railtype, but it does have a planning tracktype similliar to the one inside Useless Track NewGRF.

[AlexG]

Thank for the fast reply, guys!

First of all, yesterday night, when did I read the posts, I got a really good boom of morale because I was a bit reserved that someone would think the project is interesting...

So...
UseYourIllusion

Why don't you use Spring Patch Pack instead?

I love the features included in that patch but I'm not sure if it's compatible with FIRS or ECS 100% because once I get it started, there's no return. I'll wait for 2-3 suggestions regarding this, anyway.

It also has the extra-large-map patch, which you can use to make huge maps (bigger than 2048 ^ 2), so you can use my 4096 ^ 2 Europe Heightmap

It sounds interesting because I was looking for bigger map but it doesn't include all the countries from Europe, even the distances are much real between the cities...

I would suggest if you upload a WIP scenario file often so users on this forum can view and edit them.

I'm sure of that! From time to time, I will upload a newer version of my progress.


kamnet
I'll make some clean up in my newGRFs. I normally use Nutracks because of the multiple choices (low, medium, high speed line...) and NG Tracks with parameter set to 1 (to overlay the maglev or monorail track), so I have narrow tracks activated too
"New Depots" I think are for ships depot. I have MariCo v0.31 too.
For Polish Building Set, I have no idea how they look....I'm planning to use Swedish because they look more European..


YNM

Depends on what gameplay you wanted - if you want it hard you may use FIRS, if you want it easy you may use ECS. I'm not sure of RussianSPP problem with FIRS through.

I've never played with FIRS so I can't make a choice between them...


I did found a couple of newGRFs:
- Beach 1.0
- Customtunnel 0.3
- Dutch Road Furniture 0.6
- Teher Auto
- WagonSet

So what do you think about those ?

PS: sorry for my bad english

[kamnet]

kamnetI'll make some clean up in my newGRFs. I normally use Nutracks because of the multiple choices (low, medium, high speed line...) and NG Tracks with parameter set to 1 (to overlay the maglev or monorail track), so I have narrow tracks activated too
"New Depots" I think are for ships depot. I have MariCo v0.31 too.
For Polish Building Set, I have no idea how they look....I'm planning to use Swedish because they look more European..

I remember it now, New Depot was the original ship depot replacement NewGRF for TTD/TTDPatch. A modified version of this was used for the ship depot graphics in the OpenGFX set that is distributed with OpenTTD, and if you try to use New Depot then it will show up as broken, so there's no need for it. However, since you have both ISR and MariCo now, each of them offers a different style of ship depot. You can disable them both and use just the default depot (which looks like New Depot), or choose the crane-style depot from ISR, or the dry dock-style depot from MariCo. Exciting choices, I know.

Swedish Houses make for fine towns that spread out your cities because of their low density. Polish Building Set will let your cities be more dense and provide larger urban buildings, roughly the same scale as TTRS/ECS Houses.

I did found a couple of newGRFs:
- Beach 1.0
- Customtunnel 0.3
- Dutch Road Furniture 0.6
- Teher Auto
- WagonSet

Beach Objects is nice to play with in creating eyecandy. Custom Tunnel is only useful if you're also using FooBar's Metro Track set, otherwise the graphics don't look right. If you want to use Dutch Road Furniture, be sure to get the UK version so that it matches your roads. I'm not familiar with Teher Auto or Wagon Set.

[TinyMusic]

UseYourIllusion

Why don't you use Spring Patch Pack instead?

I love the features included in that patch but I'm not sure if it's compatible with FIRS or ECS 100% because once I get it started, there's no return. I'll wait for 2-3 suggestions regarding this, anyway.

I think it works with ECS. For FIRS I think that there is a replacement NewGRF for FIRS made by the patchpack developer

It also has the extra-large-map patch, which you can use to make huge maps (bigger than 2048 ^ 2), so you can use my 4096 ^ 2 Europe Heightmap

It sounds interesting because I was looking for bigger map but it doesn't include all the countries from Europe, even the distances are much real between the cities...[/quote]
I'll remake the heightmap. Which specific countries do you want to include?

[AlexG]

I'll remake the heightmap. Which specific countries do you want to include?

I tried to make my own on Google Earth, but everything that's up than Germany (North of Europe, England), does not contain dem data to download
Today I want to check how does 4096 x 4096 map works to know for sure if my laptop does it handles better. If it's ok and work with (high number of industries, trees and 5000 cities) then, if isn't to much trouble, I'll let you know what countries would be perfect to be included

I have:
Dual Core 1.9 Ghz
4 GB RAM
Nvidia 4M Series

On 2048 x 2048 it did work pretty ok with full built.

Thanks UseYourIllusion & kamnet for help and ideas

[AlexG]

Hello

Back again....I did those multiple tests...what can I say...it does work at medium quality
30 seconds to save or to load the game. Trains run smooth, same speed as on a 64 x 64 map. I don't know what other tests should I do and not sure how it would work with fully built but...I'm almost ready to choose 4096 over 2048 thou. Before everything else, let's make a try if it's possible with another map that includes: British Isles (England, Scotland and North Irland), Ireland, Scandinavia (Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland), Russia (Sankt Petersburg and a bit over Moscow (or...the map to have the border there), with or without Spain and Portugal (with would be great), Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Mediterranean Sea and Black Sea (+ Sea of Azov) as much as possible (to place 2-3 oil rigs on main areas and some tourist resorts) and Istanbul.
I know it's an long list but in this way it would look like 2048 Europe map. If the mountains would have the same height as in the 4096 or a bit over would be marvelous!

I want to mention that I did the tests with: 5000 cities (..and were all over the map ) so I most sure that I won't get over 5000, even with small towns...
- 50 industries
- many rivers

If there are any suggestions, I looking forward to hear and read them

[TinyMusic]

Before everything else, let's make a try if it's possible with another map that includes: British Isles (England, Scotland and North Irland), Ireland, Scandinavia (Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland), Russia (Sankt Petersburg and a bit over Moscow (or...the map to have the border there), with or without Spain and Portugal (with would be great), Italy, Greece, Ukraine, Mediterranean Sea and Black Sea (+ Sea of Azov) as much as possible (to place 2-3 oil rigs on main areas and some tourist resorts) and Istanbul.
I know it's an long list but in this way it would look like 2048 Europe map. If the mountains would have the same height as in the 4096 or a bit over would be marvelous!

My 4096^2 map has all of the British Isles + Ireland, all of the Iberian Peninsula, the Mediterranean (including parts of North Africa), the western part of Russia, everything in Scandinavia south of Oslo (so Oslo is the northernmost city on my map), parts of Turkey. Is that OK?

[AlexG]

Well,the test that I did were on your map. It is ok but I wanted to include more countries on the East and Nord....because there I have a lot of maps with railway stations and best basic industry (iron, wood, petrol...). I wished that to be less of Atlantic Ocean in advantage of more dry land

[TinyMusic]

Well,the test that I did were on your map. It is ok but I wanted to include more countries on the East and Nord....because there I have a lot of maps with railway stations and best basic industry (iron, wood, petrol...). I wished that to be less of Atlantic Ocean in advantage of more dry land

For some reason this map doesn't work well on trunk with 2048^2 size. I'll remake the map soon to include the parts you desire

[AlexG]

Thanks! Take your time

The next week, 4-5 days it will be more crowded and I have lots of things to do but in the next weekend and further, I will be more active and with more time for OTTD.

Until then I will try to run more tests to see if my laptop manages to run the game well enough to be played on 4096 map. I'll try to put head to head all the information gathered and if everything is ok with them map that will be made by UseYourIllusion then the fun will begin!

[YNM]

Just some important info, if you're using SRTM data for latitudes nearing the arctic / antarctic circle, you'd have to resize them. I suffered from this issue when I made a Canadian heightmap, I noticed that the further north areas have smaller sizes, so one need to stretch them. Just my 2cc.

[AlexG]

Hello again

After being busy these days, today I've had, finally, time for OTTD. I've made the new list with GRF I want to use and did some tests on 4096 x 4096 map. Everything works pretty well to medium. I did use full trees, 2000 cities (I won't use more than that number), 2050 rivers and 50 industries (I will have around 150) with no infrastructure built. After that, I've did more test on smaller maps (for faster generation) with the list I've made. I've encountered 2 types of errors.
First one: http://imageshack.us/a/img29/4631/gnh0.png

And second: http://imageshack.us/a/img849/4624/97ez.png and http://imageshack.us/a/img41/223/b39x.png

Please have a look over my lists:
1. http://imageshack.us/a/img841/3070/9qyx.png
2. http://imageshack.us/a/img819/3935/6nkb.png

and some rail station related objects don't have group names (like City Stations, ISR Stations, Japanese Stations), they are blank and containing objects to be placed.

The tests were made in: OpenTTD Spring 2013 Patchpack v1.7.87 Full win64

I'm not yet sure what patch I will use or if 4096 vs 2048 map...yet
I have 2 more days to decide and eager to start doing some ottd related job.

Hope someone knows what cause those errors...

[kamnet]

ECS Construction Vector is no longer used, it was merged into other parts of more recent ECS. That may be causing some of your problems.

If that doesn't resolve them, all, then remove all NewGRFs and try playing without it. Also, you might try to run the Win32 version instead of the Win64 version.

[TinyMusic]

I'm thinking that if the map is going to be bigger than 2048^2, the map should be made on a binary with just the extra-large-map patch only, because patch packs get much harder to update until development of the patch pack stops. If the map is made on the ELM patch only, then future patch packs can use it as well, instead of just one out-dated patch pack.

[AlexG]

Hello

After a long day ( I did 150 tests with every newgrf each), I've found that US Stations have blank field name but the stations work.
In this case should I keep them or remove from the list ?
Somethings like that I get on Trains: http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2563/8ex4.png

After a while, in Landscaping mode, one row is with [undefined strings] and all that's in the Landscape list, is show there...but on the other hand, I don't have problems with industries anymore

I have another question...what is with OpenGFX + Airports (+ Landscapes, + Industry)...I mean, I know what it does make, but what one is worth keeping without sweeping other newgrf ?

Thank you!

[kamnet]

OpenGFX+ is a project which provides improvements on the default in-game features while retaining the OpenGFX graphics style.

OpenGFX+ Industries removes limitation on default industries (such as building restrictions) and improves graphical appearances.
OpenGFX+ Trains and OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles includes support for ECS, FIRS and PBI industries, introduces new sprites for cargo, and livery overrides.
OpenGFX+ Landscape includes more varieties of trees, disables grid lines and adds some new features.
OpenGFX+ Airports includes override of local authority, allows you to adjust maintenance costs, and introduces 360-degree rotation of airport layouts.

I generally like to use them all except Industries, since I typically play with FIRS.

As for US Stations, if it doesn't annoy you, I see no reason why you should kick it out.

[AlexG]

Thanks for the hint, kamnet!

I would choose to keep US Stations cause I like how the stations look (if I do use only that GRF, it works correctly, so I guess is an incompatibility somewhere hidden...).

I have another question: If I have 2 newGRF that does have the same name in the game, like Basic Platforms for example, but one GRF is French stations and the other is Hungarian stations, but all are gathered in that row (Basic Platforms), it is wrong ?


Edit: I've found a way how to "cure" the (undefined string) bug and the blank field bug, by moving the respective GRF in other order in newGRF list.