Where is the sun in the TTD world?

[George]

I always thought that something wrong in shading of TTDs graphics. I think that the reason is that all the objects have different shadings. I think we have to decide, where the light comes from. I suggest the following shadows base.

[Purno]

Light comes from the right in TTD. And from the sky of course.

I've written this in my drawing tutorials.

[Wile E. Coyote]

There was simillar discussion here, it might be useful:
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=14504

[Rob]

Just look at an original aircraft and see how the shadow is related to the craft.

[George]

Light comes from the right in TTD. And from the sky of course. I've written this in my drawing tutorials.

Yes, somewhere from the right and top. But where? Have a look at the objects. It is not DIRECTLY from the right

Just look at an original aircraft and see how the shadow is related to the craft.

They are not shadowed properly and have different shadows, than buildigs. So, it is not the answer

There was simillar discussion here, it might be useful: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=14504

I know. But it has no answer. Have a look at zimmloks image. . It is the attempt to answer the question. But the image is small and it is hard to measure angels. I've tryed to make it a bit more clear.

So, does it correct? If not, than what are the angles? Draw a shadow of the pillar.

[Sanchimaru]

Oh, please, it's about 12*35 pixles vehicles in most of the cases

You CAN'T make a train sprite so that someone comes and says:
"Hey, nice EMU there! But watch out, the light should come from a 37.8 angle; and you just shaded it as if it came from a 41.3 angle! what's up, that train moves in a different time of the day? "

I don't see the need to have a closed, strictly decided measure of where the sun is... as Purno said it is up and to the right, that's all. You decide the angle that fits better when you are drawing your sprites. Mostly when drawing buildings, some might look better with certain lighting angles than others; and that won't look odd compared to the others, because they are too small sprites.

If you want to talk about realism, the TTD world is flat, so forget about realism right now.
Also, the fact that each sprite has its own sun (since all sprites would be themselves the reference point for the sun) would make the fact to decide a standard sun position even more illogical than not to have it at all.

The real life is already filled with stupid norms, please, don't come to add more where we had some liberty where to express ourselves. Just my opinion, ok? thanks

[George]

Oh, please, it's about 12*35 pixels vehicles in most of the cases

A known angle would be useful in any case

I don't see the need to have a closed, strictly decided measure of where the sun is...

To make drawing a bit easier

If you want to talk about realism, the TTD world is flat, so forget about realism right now.

No. The only thing I keep in mind is to make things look similar (have similar style)

The real life is already filled with stupid norms, please, don't come to add more where we had some liberty where to express ourselves. Just my opinion, ok? thanks

I do not want to make you to use or not to use this angle. But I want to fix it for me that would help me drawing. So, do you think it is right?

[DaleStan]

I suspect that the sun actually casts no light on the TT world.

Instead, all the light comes from an extremely bright moon.

[Sanchimaru]

I think we have to decide, where the light comes from

I do not want to make you to use or not to use this angle. But I want to fix it for me that would help me drawing. So, do you think it is right?

The first statement doesn't sound as if you were looking for help for yourself, but as if you wanted to decide a common standard.

The graphics I have seen in our forums until now are quite uniform; because in all of them the light comes from:

up and to the right

As my first reply said, it has no point to decide a standard in a game with so small sprites and without a real lighting device.

To make things easier? For me it's easier if I draw them as if the light comes from "up and to the right"; rather than if someone tells me a set angle I must watch

The fact is that I don't know which are those sprites that are bugging you so much...

[George]

I think we have to decide, where the light comes from

I do not want to make you to use or not to use this angle. But I want to fix it for me that would help me drawing. So, do you think it is right?

The first statement doesn't sound as if you were looking for help for yourself, but as if you wanted to decide a common standard.

I wrote "We" because I could not decide it alone

The graphics I have seen in our forums until now are quite uniform; because in all of them the light comes from: up and to the right
As my first reply said, it has no point to decide a standard in a game with so small sprites and without a real lighting device.

Houses and stations, for example, are not so smal as vehicles. Planes too.

To make things easier? For me it's easier if I draw them as if the light comes from "up and to the right"; rather than if someone tells me a set angle I must watch

As I wrote - you can not to use it. For me it would be much easier to draw shadows on the houses when I would know exectly, where should they be. I could simply apply the template and not draw the shade and try to make it good afterthat.

The fact is that I don't know which are those sprites that are bugging you so much...

Shadows of industries, buildings, airplains, stations look different.

Back on topic. What about the angle?

[DaleStan]

As I wrote - you can not to use it. For me it would be much easier to draw shadows on the houses when I would know exectly, where should they be. I could simply apply the template and not draw the shade and try to make it good afterthat.

Show me a template that'll work for all objects, regardless of size/shape, given your proposed moon location.

Shadows of industries, buildings, airplains, stations look different.

Industries: No graphics, hence no shadows.[0]
Buildings: Can't be added; they'll go off-tile.
Airplanes: What do you want to do to them? (And what *can* you do to them?)
Stations: Can't always be added, may go off-tile.

Explain again why you want to know the location of the moon?

[0] Industries don't have graphics; they have industry tiles. The *tiles* are the ones with graphics. But the same type of problem that applies to buildings and stations also applies to industry tiles.

[George]

As I wrote - you can not to use it. For me it would be much easier to draw shadows on the houses when I would know exectly, where should they be. I could simply apply the template and not draw the shade and try to make it good afterthat.

Show me a template that'll work for all objects, regardless of size/shape, given your proposed moon location.

first post in this topic. It can be applied. The question is - is it right?

Shadows of industries, buildings, airplains, stations look different.

Industries, Buildings, Stations: Can't be added; they'll go off-tile.

Tiles are drawn by rows. So, that makes it possible for the nearest tiles to override tiles behind them. That is not a question. A question is how to draw it good. It would be nice to have pseudo-transperent colour as we have for stations (but in sprite, not in separate sprite), but I suppose it requires too much work

Explain again why you want to know the location of the moon?

To make easier drawing shadows on buildings.

[DaleStan]

As I wrote - you can not to use it. For me it would be much easier to draw shadows on the houses when I would know exectly, where should they be. I could simply apply the template and not draw the shade and try to make it good afterthat.

Show me a template that'll work for all objects, regardless of size/shape, given your proposed moon location.

first post in this topic. It can be applied.

How? Maybe programming NFORenum has stripped what little graphics knowledge I once had, but I see no decent way to add that to, eg, the standard coal mine and get a shadow.

Tiles are drawn by rows. So, that makes it possible for the nearest tiles to override tiles behind them.

Assuming that doesn't flicker, that's all fine and good for the NW side, but how do you intend to provide shadow on the SW side?

[George]

Show me a template that'll work for all objects, regardless of size/shape, given your proposed moon location.

first post in this topic. It can be applied.

How? Maybe programming NFORenum has stripped what little graphics knowledge I once had, but I see no decent way to add that to, eg, the standard coal mine and get a shadow.

A pic

Tiles are drawn by rows. So, that makes it possible for the nearest tiles to override tiles behind them.

Assuming that doesn't flicker, that's all fine and good for the NW side, but how do you intend to provide shadow on the SW side?

At this angle only the object itself casues shadows on SW side.

[Zimmlock]

If you ask me, and it was asked before, the sun stands to the right at about 45 degree.
Thats whay we have a shadow in the window frame (see second image)

[George]

If you ask me, and it was asked before, the sun stands to the right at about 45 degree. Thats whay we have a shadow in the window frame (see second image)

If it is there, than the light on the bottom of the window is wrong. It should be somewhere infront of that line (the middle line)
As I remember you buildings, the shadows an them are from the sun, that is above 45 degrees. See your Houses-C, Officeblock, Theater.

[Aegir]

Oh this is plain silly. So no we start pointing finger at people for not using a 100% consistant lighting scheme?



Why this need to standardize everything?

[George]

Oh this is plain silly. So no we start pointing finger at people for not using a 100% consistant lighting scheme?

No. But I do not want to make mistakes in the future, that I made in the past. Standards are a thing to help.

Why this need to standardize everything?

Because it is easier to use things then. If the grf format would be only in Josef's mind (there would be no newgrf.txt nor wiki), could you create any GRF? Me don't.

[Purno]

Why this need to standardize everything?

Agreed, most people (and that's a very high amount) won't even notice a difference of a few degrees in shadow/light effect in different graphics... Besides, a pixel is pretty large in TT scale.

[michael blunck]

According to the original sprites, the angle of light isn´t exactly the same for all sprites.

However, if the direction of light would be from the right edge of a tile, e.g. both parts of a roof would get the same intensity of light which wouldn´t add to a better visibility of a roof.

In conclusion, I prefer the light coming from the right corner resp. from an angle lying between the right edge and the right corner of a tile, preferebly more to the right corner than the edge.

regards
Michael