FIRS Industry Replacement Set - releases

[Dante123]

the download trough bananas doesnt seem to be workin. although it is in the list, the download wont start (where it does work for other grf's)

[FooBar]

I see... The mirror you're connected to is probably not yet synchronized. Please report this as bug to OpenTTD if the problem persists. In the meantime I'll ask around for the probable cause.

[Ammler]

you could try in the openttd.cfg:

Code: Select all

[network]
no_http_content_downloads = true

[Dante123]

add:
it also gives a error that total town replacement set 3.02b is needed, but most recent version internet comes up with is 3.02a ?
also on the website of zimloc/george i cant find this 3.02b version.
maybe add it in the zip ?

[Ammler]

add:
it also gives a error that total town replacement set 3.02b is needed, but most recent version internet comes up with is 3.02a ?

There is no release yet, but the nightly is compatible too:
http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttrs/nightlies/LATEST/

[Dante123]

add:
it also gives a error that total town replacement set 3.02b is needed, but most recent version internet comes up with is 3.02a ?

http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttrs/nightlies/LATEST/

cool thanx!

[Dante123]

errrmm.PNG (99.38 KiB) Viewed 3135 times

did not see stuff like this on 0.3..
did i maybe do something wrong ? or is this normal for the 0.4 ?

[Muzzly]

@Dante123

I also thought that it is an error.
"Blacksmith (no new graphics)" means in this case "Blacksmith (without graphics)". It is normal to see those cubes for new industries.

It is also stated in changelog

-Some industries show up as colourful boxes. This is intended, the actual graphics will be available in 0.5.

[Ogre]

So we have a new version of FIRS to play around with. Very nice. Now the decision is made what I will do tonight... Great Work!

Edit: <Removed... a check on tt-foundry revealed why the power plant is no more present >

[FooBar]

Edit: <Removed... a check on tt-foundry revealed why the power plant is no more present >

Bring your coal to the blacksmith or the steel mill instead. There it is actually useful, where the power station is just a coal sink giving you nothing in return. Or that is at least the basic reason why it was removed. But the power station was already removed in 0.3 if I'm not mistaken.

[Ogre]

Bring your coal to the blacksmith or the steel mill instead. There it is actually useful, where the power station is just a coal sink giving you nothing in return. Or that is at least the basic reason why it was removed. But the power station was already removed in 0.3 if I'm not mistaken.

It was present in 0.3, but I prefered most of the coal be shipped to the steel mills to boost their production. So, I am not unhappy with it.

Good to see the planned indroduction of clay and brick works in 0.5... I already dream my historic hometown "reborn" in OpenTTD... FIRS is getting my absolute favourite set.

[FooBar]

It was present in 0.3

Then I made a bad in the changelog. Oh well.

[stormzel]

add:
it also gives a error that total town replacement set 3.02b is needed, but most recent version internet comes up with is 3.02a ?

There is no release yet, but the nightly is compatible too:
http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ttrs/nightlies/LATEST/

hi all

Conflict Firs 0.4 with ttrs3w-nightly-r18

Start a new game (map). no errors. everything works fine.

Code: Select all

with NewGRF:
Total Town Replacement Set nightly-r18
FIRS Industry Replacement Set nightly-r1337

But after trying to save and load game. error:



A fatal NewGRF error has occurred:
E04:Incompatible version : Toral Town Replacement Set must be version release
3.02b / nightly r18 or higher to work with FIRS
OpenTTD 1.1.0/trunk r20675 or higher required.
Consult FIRS ReadMe:
http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/readme.txt


And openttd crashed ....

NewGRF list: (test)
Total Town Replacement Set nightly-r18
FIRS Industry Replacement Set nightly-r1337

[FooBar]

That's an interesting one. I can reproduce it, but have no idea why that happens. Thanks for the report, you can follow the progress at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1432

[Muzzly]

ECS is also an industry replacement grf that alters the behavior of the game's industries and the two will conflict with each other so the answer for that one is no. You should not use FIRS and ECS together in the same game.

Is not possible to split ECS and FIRS files into two parts buildings and economy.
E.G. ECS -> ECS-buildings.grf, ECS-economy.
FIRS-> FIRS-buildings.grf , FIRS-economy.

And create two new GRFs:
FIRS-economy(with ECS support).grf,
ECS-economy(with FIRS support).grf.

In this case user could use both grfs

E.g. NewGRF list:
ECS-buildings.grf
FIRS-buildings.grf
FIRS-economy(with ECS support).grf

What do you think? Is it much work ?

[planetmaker]

I can quite promise you that making FIRS compatible with ECS will not happen. Economy and industries are one feature which cannot be separated. Both sets re-define the same things, it's nearly not possible to make that compatible. And then there remains the impossible issue of balancing it - even if it would be possible.

EDIT: different topic:

That's an interesting one. I can reproduce it, but have no idea why that happens. Thanks for the report, you can follow the progress at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1432

I reported that as http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4112

[Muzzly]

... it's nearly not possible to make that compatible

Sad.

I think openttd should be not a place for grf competition. Maybe Pikka's basic industry, ECS and FIRS authors could joind and create one GRF insdead of 3 different. If someone does not like one or another graphic (let's assume ECS), then he could switch it off using parameters.

Look train set are compatible, I can load many train/road sets. City buildings are also "almost" compatible. Why should industry be an exception?

And then there remains the impossible issue of balancing it ...

In this case let the user balance the economy. User could turn of industry closure and fund missing industry.

[planetmaker]

... it's nearly not possible to make that compatible

Sad.

I think openttd should be not a place for grf competition. Maybe Pikka's basic industry, ECS and FIRS authors could joind and create one GRF insdead of 3 different. If someone does not like one or another graphic (let's assume ECS), then he could switch it off using parameters.

Look train set are compatible, I can load many train/road sets. City buildings are also "almost" compatible. Why should industry be an exception?

And then there remains the impossible issue of balancing it ...

In this case let the user balance the economy. User could turn of industry closure and fund missing industry.

It's not about competition of grfs (at least I don't perceive it that way): all three, ECS, PBI and FIRS are industry grfs with their own unique approach to how industries work, using different views and concepts. That alone makes it incompatible from a gaming-experience POV. But not from a technical.

Stil, there's the more sever technical one: All those three NewGRF need more ressources wrt industries than any of the other two leave free. OpenTTD simply cannot manage more than 64 different industries, but both FIRS and ECS define more than 32. More over, both re-define the default industries in their unique way. So what should take precedence? More over: both define different cargos. There's a limited amount of different cargo a single game can handle. So: combining these is already impossible from that point as well.

Balancing is not about closing and opening of industries. It's about how the industries work, what they provide. About the cargo chains. Also, all sets modify core components of the game. All three do that differently. It's not about just adding another industry. They all are what they are because they define the economy in their way.

Using one grf or another is just as good as using one grf and switching off parts of it using parameters. And it's WAY easier to maintain. Both ECS and FIRS are already projects where the source code is counted in thousands, if not rather 10 thousands of lines of code.

You are always free to just take the FIRS graphics, part of the source code and convert it into an ECS - compatible industry. Sources are readily available.

[Muzzly]

It's not about competition of grfs (at least I don't perceive it that way): all three, ECS, PBI and FIRS are industry grfs with their own unique approach to how industries work, using different views and concepts.

Because I can choose only one of them , I personally treat it as a competition. I repeat, I personally would like to see a variety in the game. E.g. imagine scenario with two counties (USA and Canada) . I would like to see one type of factory ( PBI ) in north part of map and another type ( FIRS ) in south.

OpenTTD simply cannot manage more than 64 different industries

Is this because of backward compatibility to TTD? What else talks against increasing this limit?

More over, both re-define the default industries in their unique way.

I would propose stations case. Stations do not replace default station and still I can have many of them.

There's a limited amount of different cargo a single game can handle

That means we need a patch that increase cargo limit

Balancing is not about closing and opening of industries. It's about how the industries work, what they provide. About the cargo chains. Also, all sets modify core components of the game. All three do that differently. It's not about just adding another industry. They all are what they are because they define the economy in their way.

Probably another patch. is needed too. As an example I would give Town groth case. Via advanced options you can define how fast town groths, how roads are build. The same could be for industries. User could choose in what way should industry behave in default,PBI, ECS or FIRS art

...if not rather 10 thousands of lines of code

Good work! Could they or dev-s from beginning not think about possibility to mix industries?

You are always free to just take the FIRS graphics, part of the source code and convert it into an ECS - compatible industry. Sources are readily available.

I know, I just want to hear other opinions.

[planetmaker]

I would like to see one type of factory ( PBI ) in north part of map and another type ( FIRS ) in south.

That is no reason for two newgrfs but rather a feature-request for either of the newgrfs. Mainly because of the fact that all industry newgrfs follow completely different economic concepts which better are not mixed.

Stations don't compare to industries as their look has no influence on the game whatsoever, they are pure eye candy. Industries are the kind of newgrf which have most hooks into the core components of the game, which influence parts which every other newgrf relies on.

And tbh, your arguments fail to address this; and it's not a task of simply rising a constant which defines 64 industries and cargos... it means re-writing lot of stuff and it most probably means to increase the savegame size quite a bit. For little gain.