YAPP - Yet Another PBS Patch (now in trunk!)

[jimmydanny]

Because I got trains with different speedlimits, I use PSB and dual rails with crossovers all the lines, but why does some trains get stuck at a two-way station, stopping a train from going into it? Because, then the train who doesnt have a clear track on the station reserve the rail behind it to the crossection so trains behind can't drive by it.

And can somebody show me a junction with four tracks, T-junction, with crossovers like on the wiki, just look there. Mine is a little bit unpractical atm

EDIT: Another weird thing:

Why does the train ask for clear track when it is at the desired station?

EDIT: AGAIN

Why do the trains that go at the same speed switch tracks all the time like they are playing?

[Ammler]

jimmydanny, you should "clean" your tracks, you have reserved tracks witthout train. Looks, like you had accidents on it.

Be also sure to use latest version of YAPP, there was much improvments during development...

Greets
Ammler

[jimmydanny]

jimmydanny, you should "clean" your tracks, you have reserved tracks witthout train. Looks, like you had accidents on it.

Be also sure to use latest version of YAPP, there was much improvments during development...

Greets
Ammler

Well, as I can't compile with Build OTTD because I got x64, and don't have time to get into compiling the "real" way, I can't get the newest one... Thats the biggest problem. If that werent there, I would ahve made a version with trafficlights, underwater tunnels, YAPP and passenger destination (wich suck atm, because passengers doesn't want to travel from one station to a station that is 10 stations and 600 tiles away.) But, I can't. So, yeah... But I didn'y have an accident there, that is the weird part :S The only part I have had an accident is way from this place. But they tend to not find out that they actually are on the desired station, they just clog the whole system. Tried with YAPF and NPF, same s***... Annyoning, can't let the game run while I'm sleeping....

[squishycube]

Just, wow. I've never seen someone make such incomprehensible posts that did use proper punctuation...
jimmydanny, I think it would help a lot if you tried to ask one thing at a time, maybe use the enter key sometimes and run a spell checker (Firefox has one built in by default), because right now I seriously don't understand what it is you want.

[Tekky]

I understood the first half of his post, only the second half of his post (where he started talking about "accidents") I was unable to understand.

[jimmydanny]

Yeah, show me where I need a spell checker, and I look over it. But I think the problem is in your end...

I meant that the tracks that had accidents on it will be reserved, and need to be "cleaned" but there where never accidents there, so why is the track reserved? It does it all the time everywhere.

Same with trains "Waiting for clear track" in station when it is clear track, but they are facing into the station where they came from and are still reserving track.

But, for easiness sake, since I guess I got an old version and the version in gonozals patch-pack is old too, do you know about a version that is with gonozals patchpack and the newest YAPP?

EDIT: Or can anyone compile the gonozal, the trafficlight and the YAPP into the newest buld available? As I said, but you apparently didn't understand: I can't use Build OTTD to compile, because it doesnt support Vista so good, and not x86 at all, which is the only thing I got right now.

And, instead of commenting like "I didn't understand a crap, just read over, because I can send it to whoever it can be, and I promise you, they WILL understand it.

[Auge]

Hello

About the Screenshot of 2008-10-07 (second linked image (NSB A_S, 7th Oct 1998.png)). There is no accident.

Trains can pass the PBS-Signals both ways. And they reserve the track up to the next signal in their own direction. The two trains at the right side of the screenshot show an example of this behaviour.

The leading train uses the right way. The second searches now an other way. This way leads through the opposite track so he overhaul the leading train. Thats all (if my description is comprehensible)

Tschö, Auge

[MJS]

In fact, trains will ignore the signal which has its back to them, and if the choice is between a track with no signal and one with a signal, they go for the one without.

You can use the same in stations: trains will prefer a track that looks like
-------===============[-------- (where [ is a one-way signal facing them)
to one that looks like
------>===============<------- (where < and > are regular single-sided signals).

[Brianetta]

In fact, trains will ignore the signal which has its back to them, and if the choice is between a track with no signal and one with a signal, they go for the one without.

They don't ignore signals with the back facing them. They try to avoid them. Thing is, they try to avoid other trains more. This means that if there are trains at the "correct" signals, and no trains through all the "wrong" signals, and a train can reserve a path through all those backwards signals to a facing signal or its destination, it'll do that. Then it has a free run for often quite a distance down the "wrong" track, forcing everything else to wait.

This can be solved on a case by case basis with the occasional one-way PBS signal.

[Michi_cc]

They don't ignore signals with the back facing them. They try to avoid them. Thing is, they try to avoid other trains more.

Yes and no. Both reserved tracks and signal backsides have a specific penality for the pathfinder. If the penalties from reserved tiles are bigger than those from the signals, the path through the signals is chosen. The longer your signal blocks are, the more likely this is (more reserved tracks, less signals). To make signal backsides more expensive without completely disallowing passing like with an one-way signal, you can increase the setting pf.yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty.

-- Michael Lutz

[Stumo]

I've found a crash in 8_4:

Code: Select all

Assertion failed: (((TrackStatusToTrackdirBits(GetTileTrackStatus(m_old_tile, TT(), m_veh ? m_veh->u.road.compatible_roadtypes : 0)) & TrackdirToTrackdirBits(m_old_td)) != 0) || (GetSingleTramBit(m_old_tile) != INVALID_DIAGDIR)), function Follow, file /Users/stjm2/src/openttd/trunk/src/yapf/follow_track.hpp, line 106.
Abort trap

To reproduce, use the 'station remove' tool on the highlighted square.

Note: I have several GRFs in this game:

Angled Building
Aviators Aircraft (av8) v1.331
Container freight station and harbour
Glass Station v1
NewShips
UK Renewal Train Set v3.04
UK Renewal Train Set v3 Add-ons .04
PGS: Stations Set v1.2

All linked to from http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/NewGRF_List
apart from the PGS Stations set, which appears to be an old version - so I've attached it.
The only ones in active use, as far as I know, are the ones marked in bold, so you might be able to get away with just installing then.

[BlueEagle_nl]

This happens at some random events on my build as well, and not only with the latest YAPP. Sometimes, the Windows Build of Gonozal's pack has this same bug.

[Michi_cc]

The new YAPP v9 release is proudly sponsored by frosch123 (you know why ).

As you might have gathered from the version number bumb, I'm going to break your savegames again.

Changes:

• Don't try to free the reservation of crashed trains when removing reserved tracks. (Thanks Stumo)
• Improved the way reservations of crashed trains are handled in stations and bridges/tunnels.

-- Michael Lutz

[Brianetta]

Michi, I have a suggestion. It might not be workable, but here's how it goes:

Let the player mark any individual train as an express train (perhaps this could be an extra flag on an order). Any express train (or train executing an express order) will reserve the next two PBS paths, if available. It will fall back to just one if not. This will have a number of benefits:

• * Important trains (passenger trains, trains with a load etc) can be easily given priority over unimportant trains.
  * The player will actually see the occasional green signal from time to time (-:
  • * If Peter's manual train control patch ever gains popularity, us budding train drivers can know whether a signal's ours before we actually reach it!

[Eddi]

i thought about this kind of priority, too. a configurable amount of pre-reservation would help with some priority issues, like overtaking trains guaranteeing that the overtake will succeed (and stop the other train)... what it does not solve is the issue that trains will attempt to overtake trains of the same or higher speed, and thus unnecessarily block the lanes.

what it could help with [in the future] is when one forbids "emergency stops" on red signals, you can have a braking distance higher than the signal distance (so trains like ICE3 can actually reach their top speed). when you force a minimum pre-reservation of like 3 signals, the braking distance may be 3 times higher.

it does not solve all problems you will get with networks, other helps would be non-safe signals [where you only allow stopping if the exit path is guaranteed to be freed some time later, to prevent deadlocks], or "programmable" signals, like "do not let trains <=80km/h pass here" [to only allow fast trains to overtake]

in all cases, this goes far beyond the original patch, and thus should only be attempted after it gets merged to trunk

[sirrliv]

Okay, this question may have been asked before, but I'm asking it again: How do you install this thing?

[Brianetta]

Okay, this question may have been asked before, but I'm asking it again: How do you install this thing?

It has been asked, many times. In fact, there's a sticky topic dealing with this very subject:
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21678

A patch is a set of modifications to the source code, not an add-on. You'll need to at least understand what source code is, and how to build an application from it. That thread has some good links in it.

[Stumo]

i thought about this kind of priority, too. a configurable amount of pre-reservation would help with some priority issues, like overtaking trains guaranteeing that the overtake will succeed (and stop the other train)... what it does not solve is the issue that trains will attempt to overtake trains of the same or higher speed, and thus unnecessarily block the lanes.

Not if the trains of same/higher speed also reserve that many blocks in advance.0

I like it as a concept; it should help fast ones overtake slow ones.

(I've found having 2/3 lines in parallel with regular crossing points works OK for this, but it has limited capacity)

[ostlandr]

I have also occasionally had a train decide to reserve a path up the "wrong" set of tracks for a long distance. Adding in regular crossovers helps, as it allows the train to divert back to the "right" direction. I try to avoid using one-way signals, but in some cases they do help.

The old trick of segregating freight and passenger traffic using waypoints still works, too. A trick I have learned is to build a "cutoff" track with backwards-facing signals at both ends, and place a waypoint on it. Trains tend to avoid it unless directed to the waypoint, but will use it if traffic backs up. This especially works if you have only one train using the cutoff, then it can run both directions on a single track. Need to expand? Add a stretch of double track in the middle, with another waypoint so that trains can meet on the cutoff. (I tend to name my waypoints by direction by adding "WB" for westbound, etc. )

[el koeno]

Michi, I have a suggestion. It might not be workable, but here's how it goes:

Let the player mark any individual train as an express train (perhaps this could be an extra flag on an order). Any express train (or train executing an express order) will reserve the next two PBS paths, if available. It will fall back to just one if not. This will have a number of benefits:

• * Important trains (passenger trains, trains with a load etc) can be easily given priority over unimportant trains.

I like this idea.... Perhaps it would be easier to do this with signals though: make some signals "transparent" so that trains can reserve the tile ahead of it, if possible. This way you can easily make priority lines, and it should not be too hard to implement, right?