Let me change GRFs in game!

[YNM]

no, it will not load a different file, it will only reload the same file that it already opened before. so unless you have overwritten the file, nothing will change. (it will, however, reset any changes you have done in the ingame sprite aligner)

Would it also reset parameters ? If yes, then this feature shouldn't be removed,



but must be "hidden away" from any people who don't understand. cfg files

Well, at least we also can remove all trace that this is enabled... also dissalow people to publish it, probably. (yes, in that case, this thread should be removed fully from the server)

Just crazy thougt, trough.

[bjgttd]

if we simply moved it under the rug, ti would meant we are a lazy bunch. But since i can still remember the long evenings/nights we've all done in order to develop and/or debug the game, I would not say we were/are lazy at any points.

It's totally OK to hide things under the rug from time to time - called "prioritizing". But it's not OK to pretend it's not there, like some people suggesting. Windows updating it's components all the time, Linux has rpm with the dependency check.
Just a wild idea - new GRF versions could be checked for a backward compatibility on a compilation stage since everything is done (and stored) on your "build factory" anyway. Than you just allow updating (not adding/removing yet) GRFs signed "safe".

[FooBar]

In a few days (20 or 30 years in the game) the new and improved release of "Sailing Ships" comes out (the old one is already started with), but I can't use it: I'm not a developer to activate the mode (specially because it has no fail-safe), and I don't want to start over.

Upgrading a grf in an existing game (provided it's compatible) is as easy as removing the old version from your system after downloading the new one. The game will automatically pick up the new version as compatible version. No need to activate the developer tools for that.

@Yoursnotmine: It does not reset parameters. It will apply the previously set parameters to the new file. If the meaning of parameters changed between versions, you'll possibly end up with a game crash.

[andythenorth]

Is it time to consider removing newgrf entirely?

There would be a number of benefits to this.

[oberhümer]

What about scenarios?

[bjgttd]

In a few days (20 or 30 years in the game) the new and improved release of "Sailing Ships" comes out (the old one is already started with), but I can't use it: I'm not a developer to activate the mode (specially because it has no fail-safe), and I don't want to start over.

Upgrading a grf in an existing game (provided it's compatible) is as easy as removing the old version from your system after downloading the new one. The game will automatically pick up the new version as compatible version. No need to activate the developer tools for that.

It didn't do it. I've downloaded the new one, removed the old one (all from the game's start screen), than loaded the game - oops, the game has loaded the old version. Had I missed some step?

[Andrew350]

You have to actually remove the old file from your computer for it to work on an existing savegame. Just downloading the new file doesn't erase the old one, you have to remove it manually.

[michael blunck]

Is it time to consider removing newgrf entirely?

What about scenarios?

Yep. And everything else, in an attempt to achieve something like "vanilla TTD" in 2 years or so?

regards
Michael

[bjgttd]

You have to actually remove the old file from your computer for it to work on an existing savegame. Just downloading the new file doesn't erase the old one, you have to remove it manually.

But how do I know it's really compatible? Isn't this exactly what developers asking gamers not to do?

[lawton27]

Yep. And everything else, in an attempt to achieve something like "vanilla TTD" in 2 years or so?

Sounds great to me, almost wish I could play a game like that now!

[FooBar]

But how do I know it's really compatible? Isn't this exactly what developers asking gamers not to do?

The game will tell you that the grf is missing if it isn't compatible. Then you have to place the old version back. It is therefore best to move it outside of the newgrf folder instead of directly deleting the old version.

This will hold if the newgrf actually provides version information. You can check that in the newgrf window. If the grf has compatibility information a "version" and "min compatible version" will be listed with the newgrf description. If the version number of the old file is equal or higher than the min compatible version number of the new file, they're (forward) compatible. Only then the game will allow the upgrade. If no version information is available, the game will always allow the upgrade, even if it's a downgrade or if it's incompatible (as the game has no way of knowing what's really the case).

[Terkhen]

With regard to scenarios, as Foobar already mentioned: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=61140

[bjgttd]

But how do I know it's really compatible? Isn't this exactly what developers asking gamers not to do?

The game will tell you that the grf is missing if it isn't compatible. Then you have to place the old version back. It is therefore best to move it outside of the newgrf folder instead of directly deleting the old version.

This will hold if the newgrf actually provides version information. You can check that in the newgrf window. If the grf has compatibility information a "version" and "min compatible version" will be listed with the newgrf description. If the version number of the old file is equal or higher than the min compatible version number of the new file, they're (forward) compatible. Only then the game will allow the upgrade. If no version information is available, the game will always allow the upgrade, even if it's a downgrade or if it's incompatible (as the game has no way of knowing what's really the case).

I have 11 GRFs, including NuTracks, 2CC Trainset, Aviators Aircraft, eGRVTS, FISH - none of them has that information in the NewGRF Settings window. It sounds like we are talking about different games (or at least mods/forks).

[FooBar]

I can't post a screenshot now, as I'm on my phone, but you might just be unlucky that all grfs you use don't provide this information. In the end it must be specifically supplied by the author of the grf.

[Supercheese]

I can't post a screenshot now, as I'm on my phone, but you might just be unlucky that all grfs you use don't provide this information. In the end it must be specifically supplied by the author of the grf.

Or it might be that the in-game non-developer NewGRF window doesn't display that information. Perhaps you have to back out to the main menu newgrf window.

[FooBar]

Argh, you're right. Who would've expected that? Also for non-developers it's interesting information in case of problems with a grf.

"I have problems with a grf"
"What version do you have"
"I don't know, it isn't listed"

Well, that leaves moving the old grf outside the newgrf folder and trying to load the game. If it loads the compatible version you're good to go, otherwise you'll have to place the old grf back.

[PikkaBird]

In a few days (20 or 30 years in the game) the new and improved release of "Sailing Ships" comes out (the old one is already started with), but I can't use it: I'm not a developer to activate the mode (specially because it has no fail-safe), and I don't want to start over.

Upgrading a grf in an existing game (provided it's compatible) is as easy as removing the old version from your system after downloading the new one. The game will automatically pick up the new version as compatible version. No need to activate the developer tools for that.

Wat.

Surely if the upgraded version really is compatible, it will load it in regardless. No removing files, no developer settings.

[planetmaker]

Surely if the upgraded version really is compatible, it will load it in regardless. No removing files, no developer settings.

If OpenTTD can find the exact version it needs for a savegame it will use that - even if there's a compatible but newer version around.

[bjgttd]

Surely if the upgraded version really is compatible, it will load it in regardless. No removing files, no developer settings.

If OpenTTD can find the exact version it needs for a savegame it will use that - even if there's a compatible but newer version around.

And if it can't it grays out the "load" button. Looks for an exact path (and may be MD5), ignores file with the same name and ID in a different tar.
Seems like the issue is really hidden very dip under the rug and almost forgotten. No suggestions given in this topic (by people who has developed for OpenTTD a lot and know high above average about it) survived a "reality check".

[planetmaker]

Surely if the upgraded version really is compatible, it will load it in regardless. No removing files, no developer settings.

If OpenTTD can find the exact version it needs for a savegame it will use that - even if there's a compatible but newer version around.

And if it can't it grays out the "load" button. Looks for an exact path (and may be MD5), ignores file with the same name and ID in a different tar.

If you think that matching name and GRFID automatically mean and should mean the same as compatible, you're wrong. There's also the NewGRF's version and minimally compatible version taken into account. Thus a downgrade in the version will never work. An upgrade will only work, if the previously used version of that NewGRF is higher than the minimally compatible version of the newer version of that NewGRF.