[OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML

[RBC]

ok my fault, thought that was just a relative easy coding issue. Then don't bother including it.

[Lionic]

Voyager One, may I ask how do you manage to find more railcars?It seems that Wikipedia and Google are not enough

I just need some feasible list of cost factors, ideally just some equation of sorts taking into consideration some vehicle properties, but I still have to think about such an equation.

I'm trying exactly that for the Dutch Trainset.

These are the factors I came up with:
Weight - more material is more expensive, only relevant for purchase
Speed - more wear on parts, only relevant for running costs
Root power - a more powerful engine is more expensive to build and uses more fuel; I use the square root here, but am considering that this shouldn't be the case for running costs.
Vehicle life - it costs more to build a sturdy vehicle, but you'll also have to maintain it better
Capacity - you have to buy an amount of chairs (purchase) as well as clean up after the passengers (running cost)
TE - more powered axles is more expensive, in both purchase and maintenance (this is what mainly influences the TE)
Reliability decay - high reliability is more expensive to buy, but gives less running costs

I'm currently at the stage working out how to deal with multiple units (which is less of an issue in this set), as they need to be much more expensive than a single engine.

I would also suggest that more modern locomotives should have lower running costs than those with comparable stats designed earlier. In old 2CC running costs of all electric locomotives was calculated using the same equation (at least it seemed so to me). Because of that it was not neccesary to replace some 20-30's electrics and they survived well into XXI century. Also I don't think that model life would matter in 2CC as it's the same for all locomotives.

[Voyager One]

Voyager One, may I ask how do you manage to find more railcars?It seems that Wikipedia and Google are not enough

5 days of research for finding 2 electric and one diesel railcar... a great average, don't you think?

... and I just love Google's interpretation of words "modern railcar"... I DIDN'T ASK FOR FOOD, DAMN IT!!!
(try typing "modern railcar" into Google's image search)

[Lionic]

Voyager One, may I ask how do you manage to find more railcars?It seems that Wikipedia and Google are not enough

5 days of research for finding 2 electric and one diesel railcar... a great average, don't you think?

... and I just love Google's interpretation of words "modern railcar"... I DIDN'T ASK FOR FOOD, DAMN IT!!!
(try typing "modern railcar" into Google's image search)

Modern American Kitchen?

[Voyager One]

Yeah... railcar is obviously something you can eat... go figure...

At least "railbus" actually shows some railbuses or MUs...

EDIT: And to answer the previous question: "May I ask how do you manage to find more railcars?"

Google images, Wikipedia (several languages, the more obscure the better ), Railfaneurope, trying many word combinations (railbus, railcar, light rail, Stadler, Siemens, SLM, Alstom/Alsthom, PESA, Voith, Bombardier, passengers, triebwagen, elektrotriebwagen, motorwagen, railmotor...), browsing various Wiki lists (even looking at EVERY single page coming from here, in various languages, of course)...
... and a bit of luck...

[Lionic]

Yeah... railcar is obviously something you can eat... go figure...

I wonder if boxcar tastes better than the railcar.

[NekoMaster]

Hey, I was wonder if it would be OK if I suggested one more train for the set that might see some good use in modern times.

Nippon Sharyo, a company out of Nagayo Japan has this DMU called the "Nippon Sharyon DMU", which seems like a really nice Japanese Designed DMU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Sharyo_DMU

This is already in use or planed for some North American railroads, especially near where I live.

The Nippon Sharyo DMU will be used on the Union Pearson Express line Connecting Union station in Toronto to Pearson Internation Airport in the same city. As a people mover, I think this train would be a nice addition to the set and it really looked modern and sleek. Reminds me of the MPI Express MP40's

[Voyager One]

OK, last vehicles as far I'm concerned...

MVR Beh 2-4.PNG (11.11 KiB) Viewed 1577 times

MBS ET 10.109.PNG (10.9 KiB) Viewed 1577 times

CD 840.PNG (10.63 KiB) Viewed 1577 times

Wrt that, Neko, I've taken a serious look at you suggestion and although it is very interesting, I must point out that we already have 4 DMUs from 2010s (in these brief 5 years) and period is quite well covered. In fact, your suggestion has very similar stats to these that we already have and I frankly see no point in adding it - for now.

I say "for now" for one simple reason - regions. Once Transportman manages to implement the regional parameter, we could find ourselves with new "regional" gaps. As it is now, timeframe gaps have all (or mostly) been filled but I cannot see the whole picture without regions too.

So, all in all, a valid suggestion that will remain in one of my "lists" as a possible regional gap-filler. For now.

[NekoMaster]

Alright, though we should have a list of "Possible" additions so that in the future when you need something new you can pull from the list of "Possible Additions".

I just really like to see stuff with a Canadian flag next to it, being Canadian and all

[Transportman]

Wrt that, Neko, I've taken a serious look at you suggestion and although it is very interesting, I must point out that we already have 4 DMUs from 2010s (in these brief 5 years) and period is quite well covered. In fact, your suggestion has very similar stats to these that we already have and I frankly see no point in adding it - for now.

I say "for now" for one simple reason - regions. Once Transportman manages to implement the regional parameter, we could find ourselves with new "regional" gaps. As it is now, timeframe gaps have all (or mostly) been filled but I cannot see the whole picture without regions too.

So, all in all, a valid suggestion that will remain in one of my "lists" as a possible regional gap-filler. For now.

What Voyager One says, when regions are included, it might be a nice engine to add it as regional gap-filler.

Regarding wagon running costs, I have an idea. According to the specifications it is perfectly valid to set the running_cost_base to RUNNING_COST_ROADVEH. Upside, I could include a set of parameters to modify the wagon running and purchase costs separately from engine costs. Downside, if someone uses a Base cost NewGRF, that might give funny results if someone sets RUNNING_COST_ROADVEH in that NewGRF. And it looks weird in the code, but that is all.

[NekoMaster]

Wrt that, Neko, I've taken a serious look at you suggestion and although it is very interesting, I must point out that we already have 4 DMUs from 2010s (in these brief 5 years) and period is quite well covered. In fact, your suggestion has very similar stats to these that we already have and I frankly see no point in adding it - for now.

I say "for now" for one simple reason - regions. Once Transportman manages to implement the regional parameter, we could find ourselves with new "regional" gaps. As it is now, timeframe gaps have all (or mostly) been filled but I cannot see the whole picture without regions too.

So, all in all, a valid suggestion that will remain in one of my "lists" as a possible regional gap-filler. For now.

What Voyager One says, when regions are included, it might be a nice engine to add it as regional gap-filler.

Regarding wagon running costs, I have an idea. According to the specifications it is perfectly valid to set the running_cost_base to RUNNING_COST_ROADVEH. Upside, I could include a set of parameters to modify the wagon running and purchase costs separately from engine costs. Downside, if someone uses a Base cost NewGRF, that might give funny results if someone sets RUNNING_COST_ROADVEH in that NewGRF. And it looks weird in the code, but that is all.

Well if anything, if you can stop the huge running costs on wagons that would be nice. I mean, why are hoppers costing me $11,000+ and Passenger\Mail Cars costing $20,000+ to run! Thats insane for OPenTTD!

[Valle]

Nice work yet again, Voyager One! I'm really looking forward to these.

Shouldn't the MBS (Montafonerbahn) ET 10.109 have an Austrian flag, though?




Edit: unrelated remark about the ETR300: according to Wikipedia, it featured a capacity of only 190 passengers distributed over 7 cars, so only 27-28 passengers per car. The current game configuration, however, appears to be for 60 passengers per car. Is that difference intended?

[Transportman]

Well if anything, if you can stop the huge running costs on wagons that would be nice. I mean, why are hoppers costing me $11,000+ and Passenger\Mail Cars costing $20,000+ to run! Thats insane for OPenTTD!

I'll try to do it this weekend. Especially with the upside of being able to set wagon costs completely independent of engine costs that I mentioned in my previous post and only that small potential downside I currently see, there is no real reason to not do it like this.

Edit: unrelated remark about the ETR300: according to Wikipedia, it featured a capacity of only 190 passengers distributed over 7 cars, so only 27-28 passengers per car. The current game configuration, however, appears to be for 60 passengers per car. Is that difference intended?

That is an error inherited from the old set, thanks for spotting. This is one of the reasons why I want to release an alpha/beta in the near future, to catch these small errors.

[Voyager One]

Shouldn't the MBS (Montafonerbahn) ET 10.109 have an Austrian flag, though?

Oooops... why did I put the German flag and write "Germany"?!?

Well, spotted, thank you! Corrected.

ETR300

That must also be a mistake in stats from the old set. Well spotted again!

we should have a list of "Possible" additions

Don't worry, I'm writing down everything, just in case...
EDIT: I've created a new page in that tracking table document. All valid and interesting suggestions for filling REGIONAL gaps wil be written there until we see what we'll need.

[romazoon]

ETR300 also was only first class seats wiki says...so maybe it could benefit of a low cargodecayvalue (and who knws, that s maybe why the capacity was increased in old set)

[Eddi]

It means taking almost ALL files and reversing almost ALL sprites inside them.

As far as offsets go, you only need to provide additional sprites for shortened vehicles. 8/8 vehicles should reverse just fine without additional spritesets.

i think it should only be a matter of shuffling around the template definition, no need to touch the graphics files. (unless you really want to handle rear lights and pantographs)

[Transportman]

Well if anything, if you can stop the huge running costs on wagons that would be nice. I mean, why are hoppers costing me $11,000+ and Passenger\Mail Cars costing $20,000+ to run! Thats insane for OPenTTD!

I'll try to do it this weekend. Especially with the upside of being able to set wagon costs completely independent of engine costs that I mentioned in my previous post and only that small potential downside I currently see, there is no real reason to not do it like this.

The latest version contains the changed running costs. I did not yet add a parameter to set running and purchase costs separately for engines and wagons, but if people want, it is possible to add them.

[Voyager One]

Hmmm... I have a problem. A serious problem. I've just finished drawing everything from DACH and I'm bored. Or at least I will become bored soon...

Costs aside, there is one "topic" we didn't finish - futuristic engines. We have already added a couple of maglevs that exist but futuristic stuff? So...
#1 - This set consists of real vehicles, should we add concept vehicles or invented stuff?
#2 - Should this futuristic stuff be INSIDE the 2cc set or simply an add-on GRF?
#3 - Suggestions please... (links to concept train pictures or websites)

[kamnet]

Didn't you have some other project you were starting?

Hassell Australian High Speed Vehicle (A-HSV)
http://www.hassellstudio.com/en/cms-pro ... d-vehicle/

EOL Maglev
http://www.maglev.net/news/eol-maglev-train-concept

CRH-X Cobra
http://trainstation.wikia.com/wiki/CRH-X_Cobra
http://trainstation.wikia.com/wiki/CRH- ... _%28Set%29

Priestmangoode Mercury
http://www.priestmangoode.com/transport/
http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/pries ... de-mercury

[Mizari]

If suggestions are allowed an extensive Chinese rolling stock set would be nice too...