A question about the object limit (NOT how to remove it!)

[SquireJames]

Hello there ladies and gents,

Well, I've picked up playing RCT2 again (I say again, I only played the demo before since back then I was disappointed that it was not a huge improvement on RCT. Now I see it's genius compared to RCT3, which is frankly a badly coded mess) and of course, what do I hit? That bloody object limit again.

Now, I know it's not currently possible in either game (RCT2 or Locomotion) to remove said limit successfully. However, I would like to pose a question to those that have tried. In your opinion, from looking at the code, is the limit an intentionally added feature (to prevent the game running VERY slow on the PCs of the time) or is it a technical limit in the game? Basically, I am of the opinion that now with craploads of memory, multicore processors etc, if there was no limit we could surely have everything. Think Transport Tycoon. Originally with fixed station sizes, train lengths, map sizes, vehicle limits etc. Now, a lot of these have been increased or removed entirely (within sensible limits). Certainly changing these limits did not cause the entire game to keel over and die, as it seems to when messing with Loco (and undoubtedly RCT2, I can't say for sure since I have not looked into any RCT2 modding efforts). It's my opinion as a rather uninformed bystander that the reason Loco refuses to run if the limit is circumvented is because it wasn't cut out correctly. I'm not faulting those who have tried, I certainly wouldn't know where to start, but it seems like that with further experimentation the limit could be increased drastically.

Again, think TT and Tramways. Originally these were 'impossible, so stop asking'. Now, doable. Just took a lot of time and dedication. I am not asking anyone to try removing the limit or offering to remove it myself, I am just curious as to whether the more knowledgeable individuals who have tried are of the same opinion as me (doable, just a long term project due to the time and effort required) or whether it really is nigh impossible (like subways in TTDP)

[rdrdrdrd]

all i know is that it is possible to hack the exe, but only 223 vehicles will be used out of the thousands you picked, and with loco, i dont think atari will do anything if we hack it, but out of respect for the forum rules lets keep this a theoretical discusion

[SquireJames]

Don't worry, this will remain theoretical

So, the next question therefore. If only 200 or so vehicles are used even if the limit is hacked, then all that is being hacked is the selection limit, not the actual limit. It now lets you select as many as you want, but the limit still applies when the game loads. There is clearly a memory location or something that wasn't hacked correctly. I know a little about this, given as I use a memory location editor to cheat on games rather than mess about with cheats or trainers. Sometimes when you hack, for example, money, you're actually just hacking the displayed number not the actual amount. So it might say you have $1mil, but it only lets you build $100k of stuff (if that was the value before you attempted to hack it).

So it sounds like it *could* be removed, it would just take time.

I wonder if my memory editor could do it? Then it wouldn't be illegal as we wouldn't be breaking into or distributing DLL files, just giving people the information to temporarily alter the data running on their PC.

[Plastikman]

the limit goes beyond the base EXE.

Here is what we think we figured out years ago. correct me if I'm wrong...

you would have to "Patch" (We'll assume this is a patch and not a exe rewrite since patches ARE Legal) the executable in the way it reads/creates maps, scenarios and savegames.

that's the ultimate problem there is a set structure to a scenario. the map has locked "fields" if you will. I lost the data structure a long time ago, but it was something like "header data, 1 bit for Interface, 128 bits for sound, 1 bit for currency, 32 bits for exhaust, 8 bits for cliff faces, 1 bit for water, ~snip~ 224 bits for for Vehicles, etc...

that's most of your battle right there. you have to have your Patch read the map header to see if it is stock or the new enhanced map and relocate all of data bits to the new larger fields for a new map. and of course the scenario creator would have to be patched so we could create said maps (unless this carries over from the game exe)....

somewhere on the web there is a precise data structuring of rtc2 maps. this rolls over to lomo I'm sure. they are based on the same engine. Break one. you break both.

[SquireJames]

Ah, so as surmised, the issue is that the RCT2 engine has a predefined 'box' for want of a better word to hold the information regarding objects. Interesting. Well, I shall take a look but by the sounds of it, far more accomplished men than me have tried and failed.