[UNIV] ISR - Industrial Stations Renewal

[peter1138]

Although ISR has some excellent features, I find the old set is easier to use: just pick the cargo type and plonk the station down. With ISR I have to think of low and high level, ramps, track pieces, plain pieces. I end up just using the plain bare low platform...

[Nite Owl]

And since r12958, GRM sprites are reserved before Action 1 sprites are loaded, meaning they should always end up before the 16384 limit.

Ahhh... The joys of contribution. It is most satisfying when a small discussion leads to a change in game behavior for the betterment of all. Although the more likely scenario is that peter1138 had this change in the pipeline long before this discussion ever came up and the two just happen to coincide.

As for the the use of the old Industrial Station Set I too prefer the old coal unloader. I do not use the wood unloader from the old set as I like to use either the overhead crane or the crane on rails from the ISR set for that purpose. I have not had the opportunity to build either of these yet in my current game (just begun) but I am looking forward to the animation. I also keep the old Brick Freight Station grf around for the large closed shed it eventually provides. The ISR set does not provide a closed shed in OTTD. It does have the same shed but its door is controlled by PBS which is not yet universally available in OTTD. The attached picture provides a better explanation on how I use these three sets to achieve what I am after. Of course if one set could provide all of these elements then that would be ideal.

[peter1138]

Although the more likely scenario is that peter1138 had this change in the pipeline long before this discussion ever came up and the two just happen to coincide.

I had already thought of and intended to do it, but this discussion prompted it to actually happen

[Auge]

And for tipple (loading chute) I found the German word "Schüttrinne" or "Schütte"

What's up with "Rutsche"?

Tschö, Auge

[mart3p]

Although ISR has some excellent features, I find the old set is easier to use: just pick the cargo type and plonk the station down.

How about the addition of a new station class 'Industrial: stations', which would include all the existing 'plonkable' stations. Part of the difficulty currently, is finding the station for the cargo type among all the other tiles. Having them grouped together should help. The use of an extra station class would be counteracted, by no longer needing to also load the old industrial stations set.

A few additional pre-laid-out stations could be also added to this class. Krtaylor has pointed out that there is no specific station for goods, so this is certainly one I would like to add. No new graphics would be needed as it can be done with the existing elements of ISR.

With ISR I have to think of low and high level, ramps, track pieces, plain pieces.

We are already in the process of (at least partly) addressing this issue. All non-track tiles are being changed to ground level, as we have already shown with the new roads.

I end up just using the plain bare low platform...

I often do this this too to start off. I then go back later and add all the eye-candy.

The ISR set does not provide a closed shed in OTTD. It does have the same shed but its door is controlled by PBS which is not yet universally available in OTTD.

I could change it so that the door remains permanently closed until a rail is built in front of it. Would that do?

[Aylo]

[/quote]

And for tipple (loading chute) I found the German word "Schüttrinne" or "Schütte"

What's up with "Rutsche"?

Tschö, Auge

"Rutsche" is a word for the thing on the playground or a waterslide (Wasserrutsche). Never heard it in context of coal, or do you surely know, it is called "Rutsche"? I have no idea of coal mines

peter1138 wrote:
Although ISR has some excellent features, I find the old set is easier to use: just pick the cargo type and plonk the station down.

What about a "fast-build section", where you have some precasted stations and you just have to select your cargo.
(If that is not too much work....)

mfg,
Aylomen

[andythenorth]

A few additional pre-laid-out stations could be also added to this class. Krtaylor has pointed out that there is no specific station for goods, so this is certainly one I would like to add. No new graphics would be needed as it can be done with the existing elements of ISR.

This is a great idea. ISR is really really good work as it stands now, but I've just had a play with old industrial stations, and I agree with the comments that the old set made it easier to 'just build stations'.

The Canadian passenger stations set deals with this well: you can choose to build any available station tile, but if you just drag and drop one of 4(?) basic platform types it fills in all the greeble for you with really well-coded default settings (Definition of Greeble here!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble).

Other comments:

• Wood: transparent ground tiles would help a lot, the concrete looks odd in the forest. Sometimes I use Dave Worley's Rusty Sidings instead there, they look neat for lightly used forest stations. If I do use ISR for wood, I usually add a Tower Crane, and/or Office Ground Classic and Open Storage Shed. That's a matter of taste of course.
• Mineral stations: the Silo would be great with more variety, same with the unloader. The Valuables Unloader also actually makes a pretty neat mineral loader, maybe it could be multipurpose?
• Valuables tiles: these are all pretty useful in other contexts, e.g. as general goods stations, especially the Valuables Parking
• Low tiles: more low tiles would be ideal. Obviously it's good not to make things too complex, but for cargo waiting tiles there are places where low would be better.
• Steel Mill Station: maybe others will disagree, but I tend not to use this so much because the loading shed obscures waiting trains. I would prefer it to build more of the overhead crane tiles (same source sprites, different build). Again, maybe a personal taste thing..
• Trucks waiting: this looks awesome. But...would it be possible to vary the colours of the trucks so it's not just company colour? Would other people want that? And while I'm here, can you do the moon on a stick as well - cheers!
• Second moon on a stick request: cargoes like steel and copper would look really good underneath Crane on Rails or Overhead Crane tiles (without track).

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... on+a+stick

Hope the feedback is useful. Really nice work.

[Chicago Rail Authority]

RE: Wood stations -- Perhaps the basetile could be something more like what DanMacK has done for the forthcoming North American Industry Set's Logging Camp:

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28212

Something like that plain dirt tile would look nice in the woods, and alongside the sawmill/forest/lumber yard, etc. Keeping the concrete based tiles would be nice for more urban facilities, though. Any chance of both?

RE: Layouts --- If they can be made as additional station "choices" using the existing sprites, that would be nice. Personally, I would hate to lose the ability to create custom facilities tile by tile (for me, that's the great advantage of this set).

RE: Steel Mill --- I tend to shy away from this area as well, as I prefer to see all of the steel coils appearing on the platforms (or being loaded into the trains). The overall design of the graphics has been excellent from the start of this project, but I find that all of the support structures placed between the platforms obscures too much. I suppose it's late in the game to toss this out for review, but perhaps the middle structures could be done away with for a single overhead crane with tracks that expand depending on the number of platforms? Happy to provide a more detailed description if that's too vague.

[Beardie]

I like the idea of instant building stations, and then you can be able to expand with the single tiles

[krtaylor]

Count me in as a vote for instant-build stations.

I agree with the points concerning the wood stations and, maybe, the steel station too. On the wood stations, do you suppose we could get permission to integrate the rusty sidings into the set? For the steel ones, I do like the existing gantry, but maybe there's a way to rig it so that is not so long - e.g. have the solid building only at one end of the platform, and the crane-struts become more skeletal as you go along so you can see what's waiting there.

[Sanchimaru]

Thanks everyone for contributing your suggestions and ideas (and translations too! I didn't think that the german translation would be so hard to do! )

One of the original purposes of the set was to have the stations as much customizable a possible. Usually, I build the main network, using the bare tiles for industrial stations, as Mart said. Then, when I have spare time, I beging putting the decoration on To me it's part of the fun, I don't see it as I have to , but as I am able to build the stations choosing elements one by one. I mean, come on, it's just a visual effect, and the game has not so much action.
However, adding the pre-configured stations could please all users. We could have it at the top of the Industrials menu, and after it all the specific options, as an advanced building menu. If that's possible, I say go for it!

I had already planned to make more worn out tiles for certain cargos such as minerals and wood, but those will have to wait a little bit more.

[Smaug]

One of the original purposes of the set was to have the stations as much customizable a possible. Usually, I build the main network, using the bare tiles for industrial stations, as Mart said. Then, when I have spare time, I beging putting the decoration on To me it's part of the fun, I don't see it as I have to , but as I am able to build the stations choosing elements one by one. I mean, come on, it's just a visual effect, and the game has not so much action.

That's exactly the way I build my stations too.

However, adding the pre-configured stations could please all users. We could have it at the top of the Industrials menu, and after it all the specific options, as an advanced building menu. If that's possible, I say go for it!

Yeah, go for it. And make my addiction to OTTD even worse then it is now
No realy, brilliant idea.

[krtaylor]

Well, what would make that approach more practical would be if there was a way to fix the Patch such that, even if the town hates you, you can still build a station if it's just on top of an existing station.

[Sanchimaru]

^^

yes! if that is possible, it would be awesome! sometimes the authorities can be so annoying... you can have a city with good ratings over years, and they won't allow you to modify your own stations.

[Nite Owl]

The ISR set does not provide a closed shed in OTTD. It does have the same shed but its door is controlled by PBS which is not yet universally available in OTTD.

I could change it so that the door remains permanently closed until a rail is built in front of it. Would that do?

That works for me.

As for the rest of the suggestions that have come along I would have to agree with most of them. I too tend to start building relatively simple stations and then add the eye candy once money is no longer an issue. As far as the layout of the sub-menus of the station building drop down menu is concerned I am not sure another one is needed just for "simple stations". The way they are at the moment works for me. Simplicity is key in the sub-menus. We will all learn, over time, where everything is.

The steel mill is the biggest problem in terms of graphic representation. The ideal situation would be if it could be built in a multiple track per station way without the roofed sheds showing up at all. I usually go with separate load and unload facilities at steel mills. The loading (steel) facility uses the steel mill graphics (spaced to avoid the roofed shed) while the unload (iron ore) facility resembles the coal unload station I posted previously.

[Kickme93]

Nice work on another fantastic update

[mart3p]

Thanks everyone for all the feedback. All your suggestions have been noted and will be considered for future releases of ISR. I will probably discuss some of these ideas in more detail as I work through the changes.

Just one thing for now concerning the steel mill station:

The ideal situation would be if it could be built in a multiple track per station way without the roofed sheds showing up at all.

This already works in TTDPatch, if the station is built as individual platforms:

steel mill no building.png (17.21 KiB) Viewed 2889 times

It does not currently work in OpenTTD due to a 'limitation' in the implementation of Varaction 2 variable 41. See Flyspray task FS#1832.

However, adding the pre-configured stations could please all users. We could have it at the top of the Industrials menu, and after it all the specific options, as an advanced building menu. If that's possible, I say go for it!

As the consensus seems to be that this is a good idea, I will add it to the plan for v0.7.0.

[lobster]

well, i just love throwing in my own designs, so i'm not against pre-set stations (wouldn't use 'em though), as long as the option of building your own remains open.

other than that, i have nothing to say but thanks for a brilliant set. i most nearly ejaculated three times whilst watching my steel/goods station, animated and all. awesome work.

[mart3p]

well, i just love throwing in my own designs, so i'm not against pre-set stations (wouldn't use 'em though), as long as the option of building your own remains open.

I’m not intending to remove any of the existing features, you will be able to build your stations exactly as you do now. The main difference will be the way the station classes are arranged. The existing pre-set stations (Farm facilities, Mineral silo, Grain silo, Steel mill station etc) will be moved to their own group. Some of these will be enhanced in some of the ways suggested above.

In addition I may add one or two more stations to this group such as a Goods station. Whether you use them or not is of course, entirely your decision.

i most nearly ejaculated three times whilst watching my steel/goods station, animated and all. awesome work.

I don’t think I intended the animations to be that exiting. But I’m pleased it’s giving you so much err... pleasure.

[Beardie]

Hi, just wondering if anyone could help me with this error, i had ISR V0.6.2 and i downloaded V0.6.3, i over-writ the previous version and i got this error when i loaded one of my maps which had been made and saved with V0.6.2. How can i fix this?

Error.jpg (94.84 KiB) Viewed 2588 times

Thank You