US Set Development Thread

[DanMacK]

OK... since you got the Schaebel car working in the Japanset, is it possible to purchase a 5-unit freight car? (Spine Car)? I proposed this awhile back, but it wasn't assumed to be possible. We could probably do with a 3-unit car in a pinch, but a 5-pack articulated is more accurate. Just wondering if it's possible now? I'll try and dig up the screenie I posted.

EDIT: Found it =>Now, is this possible? IE, you buy one car and it has 3-5 units? (3 would work actually and give us 4 loading stages - MT, one, 2 and 3 trailers)

[krtaylor]

In the next release, any replacement locos in different climates (e.g. Y6b/AC-6) will do just that but no existing locos will be removed where there are no replacements.

Oh well, I guess I'll wait. At least the early-retirement code will somewhat mitigate the insanely long depot purchase list.

Since you got the Schaebel car working in the Japanset, is it possible to purchase a 5-unit freight car?

Sure it is. I'm not sure why we want a spine car though, the RoadRailers are effectively the same thing. At least, when they're loaded, they look the same. I'd be more inclined to have one of those 737-fuselage transports. Something unique, anyway. Szappy did the Japan set coding, but I bet you can figure out how it works from a look at the GRF. Or you can just ask him.

Oracle - I imagine that this release will not actually include all of the new posted sprites (e.g. no point in including the MBTA locos as we have no traincars for them.) When you release or decide to stop, can you tell me which of the posted sprites didn't get included? Then I'll save them when I reset the table, as I did after the last release.

To all artists: There are maybe a few trains we could/should add, such as more boxcars, the rest of the MBTA stuff, maybe the odd new vehicle here and there. But mostly I think we have enough trains. What we don't have enough of is stations, and we REALLY don't have enough buildings. The Temperate buildings do NOT look American. At ALL. At least can we have some American-style houses to replace them with? And for the Tropics, we can have some trailers and mobile homes to replace the tin shacks. Heck, drawing a mobile home is kind of like drawing a traincar...

[DanMacK]

Well, Spine Cars are similar to RoadRailers, but are a part of any modern Intermodal train. I'll draw a 3-unit anyway - We can see if we want to include it. Also, is there a way to only have roadrailers in a train, not with any other cars? Aside from a couple Amtrak used for mail, all roadrailers are run in designated trains.

[krtaylor]

Is there a way to only have roadrailers in a train, not with any other cars?

I would think so. If you can regulate what cars can be placed behind certain engines, I would expect that you could require certain cars to be in unique trains. Speaking of which, should the Bethgons work the same way? I thought they were used only in unit trains.

And while we're thinking about interesting cars, your REA boxcars got me thinking. In the 1950s, they had a sort of early modular quick-unload container car, at least on the East Coast, that was used in Pennsylvania express trains among others. It was kind of like a flatcar with maybe eight short containers on it, with quick-disconnect clamps so they could be easily removed and replaced on a tight schedule during station stops. I have a video with them somewhere, but can't find any photos.

[DanMacK]

Hmmmm... I'm pretty sure you're referring to the New York Central "Flexivan", although they only had 2 containers per flatcar, it was the forerunner of modern day COFC. We need more accurate TOFC and COFC cars as well... the single TOFC doesn't do it for me Those will wait for the next release however.

[DanMacK]

Here is a complete RS1 sprite =>Specs were posted before

[Oracle]

Also, is there a way to only have roadrailers in a train, not with any other cars?

Umm... it's very difficult to see how I could code that, if not impossible. Don't count on it.
Multiple unit cars should be possible, though.

Here is a complete RS1 sprite

I'm sorry to say this, but didn't we decide to ditch the RS1 before the first release? I seem to remember that its specs were very similar to another loco and therefore it wasn't worth including it. I haven't exactly got loads of free IDs, either.

When you release or decide to stop, can you tell me which of the posted sprites didn't get included? Then I'll save them when I reset the table, as I did after the last release.

Yes, of course. I've used most of them, except for the MBTA loco, some of B52's sprites and a very few others. Just wait until I give you the full list before clearing the table.

[DanMacK]

Well, the RS1 gives a diesel with a slightly higher TE than the S2. If need be, we can drop the 44 Tonner and keep the S2, it's pretty much useless ATM anyways. Plus the RS-1 is needed for a few livery variants I'm planning (Eventually)

How many ID's are left anyway? Would it still be possible to reserve 4 ID's for the interurban equipment?

[krtaylor]

You've got to watch out for the versions, too, Oracle. Some of the sprites have been in the table for a long time, but have had new updated versions drawn, with which I replaced the old ones. Not sure how you're keeping track of that - eyeballing?

[krtaylor]

How many ID's are left anyway? Would it still be possible to reserve 4 ID's for the interurban equipment?

Not necessary. Those will use road vehicle slots, to work as Trams (feature under development). I've given some thought as to what we'd have, there's plenty of variety between the three climates also. PCCs, LA Red Car, Boeing LRVs, Kinki Sharyo Type 7, New Orleans streetcars, Chicago Electroliners... the list is endless.

[Oracle]

Well, the RS1 gives a diesel with a slightly higher TE than the S2. If need be, we can drop the 44 Tonner and keep the S2, it's pretty much useless ATM anyways. Plus the RS-1 is needed for a few livery variants I'm planning (Eventually)

I'll leave it for now, if you don't mind. I might put it in the next version but I am just about finished with graphics for this version, so I'd prefer to do a bit of coding work and get it released.

How many ID's are left anyway? Would it still be possible to reserve 4 ID's for the interurban equipment?

I think there are about 10 (decimal) left so yes but I do want to keep some free for future additions.

You've got to watch out for the versions, too, Oracle. Some of the sprites have been in the table for a long time, but have had new updated versions drawn, with which I replaced the old ones. Not sure how you're keeping track of that - eyeballing?

If anyone posts anything here then I download it straight away onto my computer. I just use the table as a backup and as reference.

[krtaylor]

If anyone posts anything here then I download it straight away onto my computer. I just use the table as a backup and as reference.

Ohhh... because sometimes I don't like new versions and intentionally ignore them.

[Patchman]

Also, is there a way to only have roadrailers in a train, not with any other cars?

Umm... it's very difficult to see how I could code that, if not impossible. Don't count on it.
Multiple unit cars should be possible, though.

That should be relatively straightforward. Set a unique bit in prop. 25 for every wagon except the road trailers, and then in callback 1D check var. 42 of the train to see if it's set.

Hmm... this needs to be documented better. /me edits the wiki... There!

[DanMacK]

How many ID's are left anyway? Would it still be possible to reserve 4 ID's for the interurban equipment?

Not necessary. Those will use road vehicle slots, to work as Trams (feature under development). I've given some thought as to what we'd have, there's plenty of variety between the three climates also. PCCs, LA Red Car, Boeing LRVs, Kinki Sharyo Type 7, New Orleans streetcars, Chicago Electroliners... the list is endless.

Well, the interurbans I've drawn aren't really "Streetcars" and wouldn't really fit into the "Tram" mould. They're intended for inexpensive,. high speed passenger service between towns at the start of the game. The Electroliners and the Pacific Electric "Red Cars" are the only 2 in your list I'd say fit the "Interurban" not "Tram" mould. Hence, I'd say they're more to be used as rail equipment. For example, how would you fit an express motor or steeplecab under "Road Vehicle"? They haul cars?

[Oracle]

Also, is there a way to only have roadrailers in a train, not with any other cars?

Umm... it's very difficult to see how I could code that, if not impossible. Don't count on it.
Multiple unit cars should be possible, though.

That should be relatively straightforward. Set a unique bit in prop. 25 for every wagon except the road trailers, and then in callback 1D check var. 42 of the train to see if it's set.

I'd never really worked out what variable 25 was for, but that explains it. However, I'm not sure if that gives the required effect. It would certainly stop RoadRailers from being added where other wagons are present but it wouldn't prevent you from adding other wagons to a RoadRailer train, would it? (And I'm not using another bit of property 25 and changing every wagon's action 2 to prevent this; not at the moment, at least.)

[Patchman]

I'd never really worked out what variable 25 was for, but that explains it. However, I'm not sure if that gives the required effect. It would certainly stop RoadRailers from being added where other wagons are present but it wouldn't prevent you from adding other wagons to a RoadRailer train, would it? (And I'm not using another bit of property 25 and changing every wagon's action 2 to prevent this; not at the moment, at least.)

Well, it's the engines that you need to change, each of them would need a callback 1D. Then if a road trailer is attached, check for the bit. Still you're right, it's more work than I thought.

[Villem]

I would love to see some inter-urbans, im finding it hard at start of electric era to get any locomotive, thats electric, but is good for suburban and intercity service the same time..

[krtaylor]

I'm finding it hard at start of electric era to get any locomotive, thats electric, but is good for suburban and intercity service the same time..

That's because really there weren't any, the interurbans filled that niche until the 1950s.

The trouble with adding interurbans is that some of them grossly outclassed conventional rail equipment. They could regularly top 100MPH and the best ones could hit 120MPH.

Of course, they required overhead caternary, which was expensive, and they weren't really designed for 20-hour trips. But the TTD map is so small that those deficiencies wouldn't be apparent, and so the interurban-type trains would take over.

I'm of the position that interurbans should be reserved for the tram system which is currently under development, along with lesser streetcars and trams.

[DanMacK]

Interurbans shouldn't be used for cross-map travel, but they should be used to connect a large city with smaller outlying communities. In the beginning the doodlebug is handy, but slow, and the Pacific sometimes isn't viable if you want high-speed passenger travel at the beginning but alimited budget, that's where the interurbans come in. I wouldn't use one for cross map travel, and the steeplecabs wouldn't work for that. Interurbans regularly travelled 20-30 mile distances however, and that would be really handy at the start of the game.

They wouldn't fit in with the urban transit that trams would represent, as inturbans could range from one to 7 motor/trailer cars at peak.

[cornelius]

They wouldn't fit in with the urban transit that trams would represent, as inturbans could range from one to 7 motor/trailer cars at peak.

I think interurbans should be rail vehicles, and it should be left up to the player to use them "properly". After all there's only so much realism you can enforce.

Here's a Mission station update. To-do list includes: texture the raised area surface, sort out boundary walls, add LA-style garden with arched colonnade, investigate having covered stairways down to the platforms, work out how the hell to split it into individual sprites.