Build Templates (Copy&Paste) (r13911 + 0.6.3 + 0.6.2)

Doctor ZXXI · Post by **Doctor ZXXI** » 30 May 2007 15:09

Thanks for your answer.

De_Ghost · Post by **De_Ghost** » 22 Jun 2007 23:11

cmon add this to nightly so i don't have to compile it

Ethical · Post by **Ethical** » 23 Jun 2007 14:46

Sorry to be a nuisance.. I don't understand how I can use the r10263 patch because in the nightlies I can only see r10261 and r10269. So I guess I must still be missing some part of understanding of the revision number system, or there is a larger source repository.

Anyway, sorry to bother, Nice looking patch by the way, I was thinking of starting my own, but looks like it's already been done. I guess it being a controversial feature and everything it will probably never make it to trunk. Shame, seeings as it could be potentially used by AI's to build better networks. Plus I think anyone who wants to constantly invent new networks is free to do so, I know people who wont play *TTD* plainly because there is too much going into building decent networks. To be able to use some default templates would atleast fast track them into understanding how to make their own.

kaan · Post by **kaan** » 23 Jun 2007 15:05

Ethical wrote:Sorry to be a nuisance.. I don't understand how I can use the r10263 patch because in the nightlies I can only see r10261 and r10269. So I guess I must still be missing some part of understanding of the revision number system, or there is a larger source repository.

Anyway, sorry to bother, Nice looking patch by the way, I was thinking of starting my own, but looks like it's already been done. I guess it being a controversial feature and everything it will probably never make it to trunk. Shame, seeings as it could be potentially used by AI's to build better networks. Plus I think anyone who wants to constantly invent new networks is free to do so, I know people who wont play *TTD* plainly because there is too much going into building decent networks. To be able to use some default templates would atleast fast track them into understanding how to make their own.

There are usually several code updates between each nightly and this patch update is made against one of those.
The nightly builds isn't of much use when you want to try out a patch because you will have to compile from source with the patch added.

If you use MS Windows then the easy way to do this is using BuildOTTD http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/BuildOTTD

Or you can use any of the many other ways:
http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Coding_Tools

Frostregen · Post by **Frostregen** » 23 Jun 2007 16:46

It is not necessary to have the exact nightly revision, if you use the compiled win32 binary.
The nightly is just the source for current datafiles, as those get updated sometimes. (not very often)
If the datafiles would stay the same, you could copy it over 0.5.2 too

Both of your mentioned nightlies should be fine as a datafile source.

Ethical · Post by **Ethical** » 24 Jun 2007 14:26

Yay, patched up r10295 and it compiled off the bat

Really love the patch, makes adding 4 line networks fun, I was actually contemplating 6 or 8 line networks and fractal type TTD which I would never have gotten a chance to experiment with otherwise.

One thing I would like to see would be some kind of custom menu buttons, where say your top 4 templates could be stored, then you don't need to go through load/save. or locate/cut/paste/locate routines constantly.

Now did anyone ever get around to starting a template thread?

rav · Post by **rav** » 24 Jun 2007 14:38

there was an old thread with a template scenario where users posted examples of junctions on... you'll have to search it down.

PS: as far as I know this is a (very) old topic, so the savegame *may* not work..

mamuf · Post by **mamuf** » 26 Jun 2007 10:34

rav wrote:there was an old thread with a template scenario where users posted examples of junctions on... you'll have to search it down.

PS: as far as I know this is a (very) old topic, so the savegame *may* not work..

This is it: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=25512

You have to go through the thread to find updated savegames but it should work in the last OTTD stable or in some nightly, too.

(Btw: Is there a possibillity to list my watched topics? I hate it I can't find such list.)

jobo · Post by **jobo** » 29 Jun 2007 22:31

sry for posting if not appropriate but can someone point me in the right place to get detailed instruction on how to install any patches like this one as im not a computer teckie...iv tried yet failed.hense the post....iv downloaded the files yet i dont knw how to extract the .7z files...cheers jobo

Frostregen · Post by **Frostregen** » 30 Jun 2007 02:22

Hi,
I've sent you a pm with details,
and updated the first post.

Starbud · Post by **Starbud** » 01 Jul 2007 14:30

I made a discovery.
C&P templates from the MiniIN version works even with bridges in the 0.5.2 release.
But bridges copied from within 0.5.2 removes the track underneath the bridges, i suppose there is a diffrence in how the copy is made between MiniIN and 0.5.2, just if the developer of C&P havent already noticed and if someone would like to use bridges before it can be fixed

Frostregen · Post by **Frostregen** » 01 Jul 2007 15:36

Thx for reporting

I forgot to re-insert a piece of code when the "bridge-branch" moved out of trunk back then.

0.5.2 win32.exe and patchfile updated.

Starbud · Post by **Starbud** » 02 Jul 2007 02:48

I'm happy i could help

The worst thing is that i come with more work for you if you would choose to accept it.
Do you think there is a good way to let C&P check that the copy is properly done a few after seconds or whatever is apropriate.
Sort of reading the map twice to compare with what should have been placed and then redo that tile when a mismatch is found.
Mostly this error occurs when there are many players online and A LOT of trains and construction on the map.

Even without the failcheck it's a wonderful tool that i have had A LOT of joy using

And another personal request if it's not too much trouble, can the array be increased to handle my 180x180 tile intersection?

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 02 Jul 2007 22:40

I thought of two improvements for the patch.

First will be some option not to terraform land at all (try pasting whatever was here without raising or lowering land first)

In attached picture, the thing on left is part of station entrance. The entrance is partly up-hill and I want to copy it elsewhere. But the copy tries to place the land heights too and I want the copied entrance to be on flat land, since the target station does not have two steps up at its entrance.

(same thing will happend when copying flat land entrance to a hill)

Mostly I want the land levels too, but there are few situations where I don't want any land leveling to be pasted (i will terraform the place manually in advance in those cases), only the tracks/signals ...

Seciond idea is related to multiplayer. As in multiplayer the pasting is not instant, I think it may be worthy trying to coalesce commands. Since bulldozing can be done in squares by player (drag the dynamite and blow up large area ...), any adjacent to-be-bulldozed squares in a line could be bulldozed by one strike, sending only one command to server and not as many, as there are tiles.

Some optimizations could be also done if the line happen to include some straight rail or road segment, as these can be also placed "in one blow"
(alhought there is risk that if something comes in the way, the layed track can be more incomplete that when pasting one-by-one, as first barrier will stop laying it)

This can enable a bit faster pasting in multiplayer.

Also, as signal GUI adds ability to paste the correct signals directly (by adding appropriate command), signals could be placed with one comand if copy & paste is used with signal GUI (now it takes 5 or 6 clicks to place the one way combo presignals, depending on direction, bit less for other types)

This will lessen the occasional bugs when pasting (sometimes some commands are missed out, which leaves parts of the tracks unplaced or some signals wrong (if one of the necessary clicks is missed). If this would be implemented, there shouldn't be any incorrectly places signal, possibly only missing ones, which is much less evil .... (I once haven't noticed one reversed signal in station entry ... till 60 trains have clogged up the surrouding area, bringing the network to stop ... )

Frostregen · Post by **Frostregen** » 03 Jul 2007 07:35

Bilbo wrote:I thought of two improvements for the patch.

First will be some option not to terraform land at all (try pasting whatever was here without raising or lowering land first)

In attached picture, the thing on left is part of station entrance. The entrance is partly up-hill and I want to copy it elsewhere. But the copy tries to place the land heights too and I want the copied entrance to be on flat land, since the target station does not have two steps up at its entrance.

(same thing will happend when copying flat land entrance to a hill)

Mostly I want the land levels too, but there are few situations where I don't want any land leveling to be pasted (i will terraform the place manually in advance in those cases), only the tracks/signals ...

Seems reasonable. (and easy to implement)
I will make the existing "paste vacant terrain"-button a 3-way toggle button.
- = Terraform nothing
N = Terraform only needed terrain
+ = Terraform all terrain

Bilbo wrote:Seciond idea is related to multiplayer. As in multiplayer the pasting is not instant, I think it may be worthy trying to coalesce commands. Since bulldozing can be done in squares by player (drag the dynamite and blow up large area ...), any adjacent to-be-bulldozed squares in a line could be bulldozed by one strike, sending only one command to server and not as many, as there are tiles.

Some optimizations could be also done if the line happen to include some straight rail or road segment, as these can be also placed "in one blow"
(alhought there is risk that if something comes in the way, the layed track can be more incomplete that when pasting one-by-one, as first barrier will stop laying it)

This can enable a bit faster pasting in multiplayer.

I thought of this too, but this will make the code even more complex, which is currently something I do not want.
In the meantime just imagine the paste-delay as some kind of fairness-factor in multiplayer

(You may reduce the delay in patch-settings btw...)
Also you may continue building elsewhere while waiting for the paste to finish.

Bilbo wrote:Also, as signal GUI adds ability to paste the correct signals directly (by adding appropriate command), signals could be placed with one comand if copy & paste is used with signal GUI (now it takes 5 or 6 clicks to place the one way combo presignals, depending on direction, bit less for other types)

This will lessen the occasional bugs when pasting (sometimes some commands are missed out, which leaves parts of the tracks unplaced or some signals wrong (if one of the necessary clicks is missed). If this would be implemented, there shouldn't be any incorrectly places signal, possibly only missing ones, which is much less evil .... (I once haven't noticed one reversed signal in station entry ... till 60 trains have clogged up the surrouding area, bringing the network to stop ... )

Sounds reasonable, will be done.

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 03 Jul 2007 11:15

Frostregen wrote: I thought of this too, but this will make the code even more complex, which is currently something I do not want.
In the meantime just imagine the paste-delay as some kind of fairness-factor in multiplayer
(You may reduce the delay in patch-settings btw...)
Also you may continue building elsewhere while waiting for the paste to finish.

I know, I already decreased that from 5 to 1

BTW if you build somewhere else in the meantime, I think this will make greater chance that some part will not build or be build badly (Since I remember most build errors occured when building something elsewhere in the meantime).

Starbud · Post by **Starbud** » 03 Jul 2007 11:59

I think that might come from how busy the server is at the moment, there is always construction going on.
Maybe the problem is that the server throw away orders when it's too busy doing something else, i have noticed that there is more errors on busy servers and almost none when the map is brand new and almost no players conneccted.
Either way i'm thankful for any improvement

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 04 Jul 2007 01:28

Starbud wrote:I think that might come from how busy the server is at the moment, there is always construction going on.
Maybe the problem is that the server throw away orders when it's too busy doing something else, i have noticed that there is more errors on busy servers and almost none when the map is brand new and almost no players conneccted.
Either way i'm thankful for any improvement

I think it sometimes happen even when placing signals manually ... I click three times ... and the server only accept two clicks. And since the pasting uses the same commands as human ...

Bilbo · Post by **Bilbo** » 14 Jul 2007 16:22

I thought of another idea. Since I often paste my layouts rotated (like if I copied piece of track running nort-south and want to paste it east-west), I think it may be useful to have shortcut keys also for rotating the pasted layout (I suggest using "[" and "]" for left/right rotation)

Also relatively often I toggle the "dynamite" button, so I think it deserves a shortcut too.

Wolf01 · Post by **Wolf01** » 14 Jul 2007 17:47

Bilbo wrote:I thought of another idea. Since I often paste my layouts rotated (like if I copied piece of track running nort-south and want to paste it east-west), I think it may be useful to have shortcut keys also for rotating the pasted layout (I suggest using "[" and "]" for left/right rotation)

Also relatively often I toggle the "dynamite" button, so I think it deserves a shortcut too.

or maybe comma and period, i know that offten the old games used these keys, maybe because they have < and > writings on them

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Build Templates (Copy&Paste) (r13911 + 0.6.3 + 0.6.2)

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