BMI to be sold to IAG (BA)

[Kevo00]

Just last year I went on a newly opened Delta route to Miami from Heathrow. The plane was virtually empty. Maybe it would be better to move routes to destinations like this to other London airports? Perhaps some of the BMI routes that this thread was originally about could be moved to Luton, Stansted or Southend, for instance.

Given that airlines (BA especially) prefer to consolidate flights at their hubs, how do you propose people from Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester, etc, access these BA/bmi routes that would now be at Luton, Stansted or Southend? BA, of course, only fly to LHR, and in some cases LCY and LGW, from these airports. EasyJet or Ryanair may fly from some of these UK airports to the "cheapy" London airports, but you're not going to be able to buy a ticket combining a low cost carrier and BA, and buying two separate tickets would probably cost twice as much and be completely stupid. As such, all these people are just likely to connect through a European hub, such as Amsterdam.

Of course, for Londoners themselves, it may well be OK, but one should not forget about the rest of the UK (which, after all, contains more people than London itself).

Also, BA already operates from three London airports - adding more involves fairly significant costs unless the airports themselves are in some way willing to "assist" BA with a good deal.

I do get what you're meaning here, but at least as long as airlines want to operate hub systems, then you really do have to concentrate on one or two major hubs.

Yes, and BA could stay at T5. But what about airlines, such as the US airlines, that do not have a UK feeder system, and which don't rely on connecting flights from outside London to a large extent? Given that transit times can often be quite long, is having to take a couple of trains or a bus to change airport that much of a problem?

Indeed, this GLA working paper, from 2009, using data from a 2006 CAA surver finds that 51% of Heathrow passengers originated from within the Greater London area, and 47% of journeys started there. The role of passengers from as far away as Glasgow or Aberdeen is likely to be quite marginal.

And yes Alan, I flew by Delta to Miami before they cancelled the route again, thank you. Yes aviation investment is growing in Asia, but whether this is sustainable or not remains to be seen.

[GurraJG]

The whole of Europe and North America will be involved...

And what if they don't want to participate in your insane scheme?

Thenthey will have to deal with the fact they have civil unrest due to spending cuts and economic decline etc

And invading Monaco will solve that?

[Ameecher]

And invading Monaco will solve that?

Cracking down on Tax evasion/avoidance will!

I sometimes wish I could live in the same world of you of blissful ignorance of how it all works.

Well, you're either blissfully ignorant or the most angry person ever to have walked this earth.

[GurraJG]

And invading Monaco will solve that?

Cracking down on Tax evasion/avoidance will!

Because that's the only reason people participate in civil unrest!

Also, going to war... probably not going to help.

But seriously, you're assuming everyone will be in favour of you invading Monaco. But seriously, what are you going to do when you realise that no one actually in in favour of you doing that, and then turn on you, imposing sanctions or deciding to stop investing in Britain. Then what?

[orudge]

Yes, and BA could stay at T5. But what about airlines, such as the US airlines, that do not have a UK feeder system, and which don't rely on connecting flights from outside London to a large extent? Given that transit times can often be quite long, is having to take a couple of trains or a bus to change airport that much of a problem?

Most transits in LHR can be done in 1.5 hours, although more may be recommended if changing terminals (2.5 hours probably preferable). If you're going from a UK flight to an international flight, the process is even simpler. But changing airports in that same amount time is generally unrealistic in London traffic, unfortunately. Plus there's the inconvenience of having to lug your bags with you, which should not be understated. And you have to go through security again, which if you're doing the aforementioned UK-international connection, is something you wouldn't have to do at LHR.

Of the US airlines that fly into LHR, I think Delta is - currently - the only one without a UK domestic feeder partner. American Airlines have British Airways, and United and US Airways have bmi (for now). When bmi's domestic flights disappear, I guess those airlines will just book onto BA, as other airlines did when bmi pulled LHR-GLA.

That said, many of the US airlines fly into other regional airports - United in particular fly into several from EWR. So, for US-bound traffic, it is perhaps less essential to change at LHR - indeed, it may be far preferable to fly ABZ-MAN, then MAN-EWR, seeing as MAN is a lot quieter!

[Dave]

Sorry Owen but a 150 minute connection is not quick enough. Where are your high speed Pendolinos to connect the terminals? I am going to war with TT-Forums over this trivial matter and I'm going to GET THE BACKING OF THE UN.

Seriously though. 150 minutes is AGES.

[JamieLei]

Of the US airlines that fly into LHR, I think Delta is - currently - the only one without a UK domestic feeder partner. American Airlines have British Airways, and United and US Airways have bmi (for now). When bmi's domestic flights disappear, I guess those airlines will just book onto BA, as other airlines did when bmi pulled LHR-GLA.

That raises an interesting point though. What incentive does BA have to offer codeshare to shovel people onto a transatlantic United flight? If people really want to go via London, then BA would want them to cross the Atlantic on BA/AA. Anyway the majority (if not all?) of those onward destinations are probably already connected up to Frankfurt by Lufthansa.

Of course there's the reward ticket FTers who will throw a tantrum, but reward tickets don't generate any income so they can be forgotten when it comes to actual decisions.

[GurraJG]

Sorry Owen but a 150 minute connection is not quick enough. Where are your high speed Pendolinos to connect the terminals? I am going to war with TT-Forums over this trivial matter and I'm going to GET THE BACKING OF THE UN.

And you'll make Owen pay for it.

[Pilot]

So, for US-bound traffic, it is perhaps less essential to change at LHR - indeed, it may be far preferable to fly ABZ-MAN, then MAN-EWR, seeing as MAN is a lot quieter!

However, for some really annoying Reason, a lot of the American Flights arrive one after the other in the Morning, then there are hardly any.

[orudge]

That raises an interesting point though. What incentive does BA have to offer codeshare to shovel people onto a transatlantic United flight?

Concerns over monopolies, etc, mainly. (Although the fact BA have had to make slots available for domestic flights means that, hypothetically, another operator could come along and offer such connections. Whether they will or not is another matter). Plus, BA don't actually have to codeshare, they just have to offer their flights for sale through the appropriate channels, which they already do. Even now, you can book Air New Zealand or Singapore Airlines flights with BA connections (both airlines being members of Star Alliance). And you can book trips on BA.com that include SAS and Lufthansa flights (even with airberlin now being a OneWorld member).

An airline will probably try to steer people via their codeshare/alliance partners where practical though.

However, for some really annoying Reason, a lot of the American Flights arrive one after the other in the Morning, then there are hardly any.

If they arrived any later, they'd have to take off in the middle of the night!

There are, incidentally, a few daytime flights from the US to the UK, I believe - leaving, say, New York at 8am, and arriving 8pm in the UK. The vast majority are overnight flights, though.

[Hitperson]

There are, incidentally, a few daytime flights from the US to the UK, I believe - leaving, say, New York at 8am, and arriving 8pm in the UK. The vast majority are overnight flights, though.

due to noise restrictions on night time opperations??

[Pilot]

due to noise restrictions on night time opperations??

Heathrow has a Noise limit at night (Also thinks it shuts Sunday Night), Manchester is allowed to operate any Aircraft onto 5L/23R 24/7, with 5R/23L not being allowed to operated between 10pm and 6am (agreement with locals).

[GurraJG]

Angrily ignorant, more like it.

[Hitperson]

Angrily ignorant, more like it.

switch them, i would say Ignorantly Angry, the rabid and deranged rantings of someone who clearly has no idea.

[Hitperson]

Angrily ignorant, more like it.

switch them, i would say Ignorantly Angry, the rabid and deranged rantings of someone who clearly has no idea.

I would just put "Very Angry"

or idiot...

[orudge]

I am not suggesting going to war with tax havens, only that they hand over tax cheats/evaders/avoiders and the realated missing tax money!

What if they say no? And what if other allies of theirs, such as the US (which is, of course, run by big business - they're not going to want to help you), team up with them to fight you off? Are you going to go nuclear on the US to try to "win" this war, all for some poxy taxes?

Also, Monaco won't have to hand over "tax avoiders" because they're already here in Britain, and what they're doing is perfectly legal. How many times does this have to be stated?

[GurraJG]

It's hilarious how clueless you are about the real world.

[GurraJG]

It's hilarious how clueless you are about the real world.

If we have to go it alone, then war will mnot be done, but we can still cause civil unrest in tax havens

'cause tax havens where everyone's rich is such a good breeding ground for civil unrest.

[GurraJG]

I am saying that MI6 should covertly fund "rebel" groups within those nations (the CIA has done this)

Because there's a whole bunch of rebel groups in Monaco!

[Dave]

I am saying that MI6 should covertly fund "rebel" groups within those nations (the CIA has done this)

HAHAH JUST TO FUND A COUPLE OF RAILWAYS! YOU'RE A FOOL! A GRADE-A TOSSER!