Japan's Transport Issue

[61653]

Told you!

Look on the bright side though, in spite of being Europe's shortest passenger branch line, I don't think it's ever had regular pacer use. (correct me if i'm wrong tho.)

[Dave]

Told you!

Look on the bright side though, in spite of being Europe's shortest passenger branch line, I don't think it's ever had regular pacer use. (correct me if i'm wrong tho.)

No you're right. Had a GWR experimental car as early as 1910. The AEC railcar had dibs for a while, then a 121, which was used for years and years, before being replaced by the 153. The 153 replaced the 121 following two runaways in 89 and 90.

[bwong]

ok. let's try to get back to topic, tho.... hehe
Would you consider Japan's train network to be one of the most sophisticated networks? If not where?

[61653]

The 153 replaced the 121 following two runaways in 89 and 90.

Sorry to be a pedantic ar$e (and to continue the o/t), but the 153s weren't converted from 155s until 1991/92...

[bwong]

Sorry to be a pedantic ar$e (and to continue the o/t), but the 153s weren't converted from 155s until 1991/92...

noooo nooooo noooo no problemo love to see somebody to actually post in my topic

[Dave]

The 153 replaced the 121 following two runaways in 89 and 90.

Sorry to be a pedantic ar$e (and to continue the o/t), but the 153s weren't converted from 155s until 1991/92...

Sorry yeah... I didn't mean the two to sound so interlinked - the 153 took over from the 121 after the runaways, but not as a direct consequence of.

Sorry bwong... Back to your topic.

[bwong]

hehe double post! anyways
o/t again, by me. Um, what's that grf set that has japanese stations, with like the buildings (malls, buildings as overpasses....) I have one of the Japanese Station sets... and swear I've seen them in my games, but now I can't find it

[JamieLei]

I thought there already is a bus alternative. But it's crap.

I honestly need to take a ride on the PPM before my (won) rail pass expires in April. I was at the Junction the other week visiting a friend and I saw one pull in. Plus I had my bike with me. Honestly, who the hell decided to build Stourbridge Junction at the bottom of some bloody huge hill?

[audigex]

Higher speed trains don't necessarily mean higher capacity, because a faster train needs a longer free path to allow for braking distances etc. However it isn't really line capacity that's the problem, it's the issue of pushing trains through junctions and stations. You can't run all the trains at full speed through the junction on all lines, they just won't mesh together. The same with stations, it's all well and good having trains 30 seconds apart at 300mph... but if each one has to spend 5 minutes in the station, you'll need 12 platforms in each direction (10 loading/unloading, 1 entering and 1 leaving)

A similar problem comes in with double-decker trains, although doubling the capacity doesn't double the loiter time, it does increase it. Longer trains are better to some extent, although with higher initial costs.

To me, a combination is required in the UK. When building new lines they should be built with long, double decked trains in mind, a little extra now will save a lot in future. The big north-south main lines need faster, longer trains. The southeast needs longer, double-decked trains. The east and west need faster trains. Transpennine and cross country routes need longer trains. Rural areas need more, shorter trains. It's pretty obvious what is needed in each area, but whether it's financially possible is a different question.

To Japan, I think their train system handles things superbly from the things I read, although I've never tried it myself. I think they'll be looking at longer trains before faster, however.

[Dave]

I thought there already is a bus alternative. But it's crap.

Yeah as I say... it's like £1.70 on NXWM now, as opposed to 90p on the train, and the train does it about two or three minutes quicker than the bus (I definitely exaggerated about that earlier haha).

PPM's perfect for the route. I was talking to the conductor who started chatting to me when he saw me with my camera. He said it's running really well, apart from the early teething troubles when the brake system was causing the train to judder. Now this only happens one in 20 trips or so. I got very excited because there was a FL66 at SBJ (extremely rare haha) and he was highly amused. Let me into the back cab area to get a photo, but it moved out of shot as I got there. Nice bloke he is.

[Kevo00]

I really think the only way forward in the most congested parts of the UK would probably be to build new lines for commuters where possible, as trying to increase capacity on the existing lines is almost impossible - I doubt the 3rd rail system could carry double deck trains, its already stretched to the limit with some of the present units. Might be easier north of London, but there are still a lot of tunnels to change, not to mention bridges and electrification etc. Unfortunately the money and political will are just not there, and the private sector can't intervene either as building a new route would involve a lot of planning wrangles, never mind raising the capital in the present climate.

In Japan, I was under the impression there are a lot of 'private sector' lines, which were quite small when JNR was formed in about 1900, but which were gradually expanded to the extent that the JNR was just one competitor among many in the Tokyo-Kobe corridor making its nationalised status irrelevant. Shame such demand based building wasn't possible in the UK post 1948.

[doktorhonig]

Another problem is the increasing distance between home and work. High population densities are important for efficient public transport, but even within urban areas commuting takes more and more time. I travel 40 minutes each day to work, and even though I'm interested in transportation and like riding trains, I wouldn't mind if I had a 5 minutes walk to work.
But with lots of jobs in expensive city centers, where average people simply cannot afford to live, we struggle with overcrowded trains.