ECS vectors v1.1.2 (by George) 19/06/2011

[Haiya-Dragon]

[...] Lime quarry [...]

This is part of the construction vector, which is still at alpha level.

As for the others: You did take beta5 from George's forum not the beta4 ones from his usual download location, did you? What were the exact parameters you gave to each of the ECS NewGRFs? George probably also needs a savegame to do anything about it.

I know construction is beta 1, just included that for completeness' sake. I observed this behaviour on both beta 4 and 5. Parameter values used were 4, 5, 6 and 7 to rule out errors on combinations.

it's not "No closure". It's "No mine closure" (Oil wells and Oil rigs are considerated mines and use the same code). These are not mines (and Lime quarry is not represented in beta 5) and should close.
To decrease closure conditions' values set GBC parameter bit 3 on (add 8 ). But even this will not protect the industry from closure if no service is provided.

As for adding a parameter to protect every industry on the map. I do not see any reason to protect industries forever. Even in original TTD industries were closing.

If that's the case then the documentation confuses me. The wiki states that parameter 1, value 4 is 'no closure' suggesting it counts for everything. Also, if it only prevents closing mines, then why is there such a setting for the wood vector?

Closing industries is fine, but at present every industry that's not serviced is closed down after approx 40-50 years. Perhaps it's an option to provide the industry closure chance percentage via a parameter? Then you could set it lower for larger maps (or perhaps 0 if you don't want to have industries close down at all)

[Snail]

I've finished the Italian translation of all the vectors and filled some blanks for the French one... anyone, please check for mistakes!

When will these string be updated into the .GRF?

[DaleStan]

As for vars 23 and 24, you could simulate them with only six extra sprites total. Put those six place of the 12 extraneous sprites that change TTD sprite 2.

This is the most annoying part to fix. Could you provide long date support in TTDPatch?

Is there some reason that pasting these 5 sprites (Yes, I lied.) near the beginning of your NFO and checking 1C after 7E E0 and/or 7E E1 instead of 23 and/or 24, respectively, won't work?

Code: Select all

-1*0 02 09 E0 89 23 00 FF FF FF FF 00 FF FF
-1*0 02 09 E1 89 24 00 FF FF FF FF 00 FF FF
-1*0 09 9D 01 \7! 00 02
-1*0 02 09 E0 89 20 00 FF FF 00 00 \2+ 1A 00 \d701265 00 FF FF
-1*0 02 09 E1 89 20 01 FF 00 00 00 \2+ 1A 00 \d1920 00 FF FF

This leaves just indu var 93, and if you're willing to be a guinea pig, I can implement CB29/35 returns 0D and 0E. I just don't have the patience to test them.

Fine! Just whistle

It compiles. That is the extent to which it has been tested.

[George]

it's not "No closure". It's "No mine closure" (Oil wells and Oil rigs are considerated mines and use the same code). These are not mines (and Lime quarry is not represented in beta 5) and should close. To decrease closure conditions' values set GBC parameter bit 3 on (add 8 ). But even this will not protect the industry from closure if no service is provided.

If that's the case then the documentation confuses me. The wiki states that parameter 1, value 4 is 'no closure' suggesting it counts for everything. Also, if it only prevents closing mines, then why is there such a setting for the wood vector?

http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... nformation

bit 2 (value 4) - No mine closure. The mine should never close unless it is exhausted.

Closing industries is fine, but at present every industry that's not serviced is closed down after approx 40-50 years. Perhaps it's an option to provide the industry closure chance percentage via a parameter? Then you could set it lower for larger maps (or perhaps 0 if you don't want to have industries close down at all)

Currently it uses very low probability to start closure event (1/128 ~ 1%). There are only 2 more values possible (0% and 0.5%). I'd better focus on map size control.

[George]

Is there some reason that pasting these 5 sprites (Yes, I lied.) near the beginning of your NFO and checking 1C after 7E E0 and/or 7E E1 instead of 23 and/or 24, respectively, won't work?

It was once a hell job to replace checks to vars 23/24 and it would be a hell job to change it to something else again. Honestly, I'd better be a guinea pig to test your new code for these vars

This leaves just indu var 93, and if you're willing to be a guinea pig, I can implement CB29/35 returns 0D and 0E. I just don't have the patience to test them.

Fine! Just whistle

It compiles. That is the extent to which it has been tested.

Testing started. Does it require a new game or can be applied to existin one?

[George]

This leaves just indu var 93, and if you're willing to be a guinea pig, I can implement CB29/35 returns 0D and 0E. I just don't have the patience to test them.

Fine! Just whistle

It compiles. That is the extent to which it has been tested.

Bug found. Sometimes it increases production to the highest level (was not expected).
How to test.
Run a game with ECS basic, chemical 2 or wood vectors (beta 5)
Select the raw material industry and provide a service. The level grows 4%, 5%, 6% ... and suddenly jumps to 100%

[DaleStan]

It should (erm... make that "was supposed to") work on an existing game.

[George]

I've finished the Italian translation of all the vectors and filled some blanks for the French one... anyone, please check for mistakes!
When will these string be updated into the .GRF?

Done

[Snail]

Thanks!

I've checked the Italian version; made a couple of edits in the translation to give a better effect. I noticed a glitch, probably the same that dbkblk noted in the French version.

In this picture, the fishing ground should be called "Zona di pesca di Slenningwell Ridge", not "Pozzi di Slenningwell Ridge". "Pozzi" actually means "oil wells". The name of the station itself (when I click on it and the window appears) is fine though.

Now the only remaining one is the Construction vector! Any plans to translate Pikka's variation as well?

[George]

I've checked the Italian version; made a couple of edits in the translation to give a better effect. I noticed a glitch, probably the same that dbkblk noted in the French version.
In this picture, the fishing ground should be called "Zona di pesca di Slenningwell Ridge", not "Pozzi di Slenningwell Ridge". "Pozzi" actually means "oil wells". The name of the station itself (when I click on it and the window appears) is fine though.
Now the only remaining one is the Construction vector! Any plans to translate Pikka's variation as well?

The problem with fishing grounds station name is OTTD bug http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1822

Construction vector is in the TODO list

[Chico008]

Can you make a list for the parameters of the ECS (for unlimited stockpile, no closure, ...) like you did with the Beta4 some months ago please ?

we put them on a server with Daylenght patch, and build mines because they always close is pretty annoying.

Thx

[George]

Can you make a list for the parameters of the ECS (for unlimited stockpile, no closure, ...) like you did with the Beta4 some months ago please ?
we put them on a server with Daylenght patch, and build mines because they always close is pretty annoying.

http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... nformation

[Chico008]

Ok thanks, i haven't seen.
parameters are the same as for Beta4 so, great

[George]

Ok thanks, i haven't seen.
parameters are the same as for Beta4 so, great

They are not. They have more values than in beta 4

[dbkblk]

I've updated and polished a bit some french translation. Now it's totally done for this language.

[Snail]

Hi George,

with OTTD supporting dates prior to 1920, wouldn't it make sense to let some industries appear only after a certain date? For instance, auto plants should only appear after 1890...

[George]

Hi George,
with OTTD supporting dates prior to 1920, wouldn't it make sense to let some industries appear only after a certain date? For instance, auto plants should only appear after 1890...

Good point.
Could you suggest introduction dates for all the industries?

[Snail]

Hi George,
with OTTD supporting dates prior to 1920, wouldn't it make sense to let some industries appear only after a certain date? For instance, auto plants should only appear after 1890...

Good point.
Could you suggest introduction dates for all the industries?

Well, let's see...

At a first glance, I'd propose these dates for the following industries:

oil wells >1875
refinery >1875
chemical plant >1875

The first oil refinery was built in 1856, according to Wikipedia, but it seems they didn't start being really important for the economy any time before some 20 years later. 1875 as introduction date would coincide with the Swedish early refinery also mentioned by Wikipedia.
If we decide to delay refineries until 1875, this would apply to the whole oil cycle connected to them, I guess. This means that oil wells and chemical plants would need to wait until that year.

petrol stations (>1890)
auto plant (>1890)

The first car was built in Germany in 1885 (again, according to Wikipedia). I would suggest to wait 5 years before making auto industry available in TTD (and it would be a very short wait indeed... maybe 1895 or even 1900 would be more realistic, but anyway). This would of course affect auto plants, but even petrol stations, which should not appear in cities until that date.

In terms of cargoes, these would be the affected items, if I'm not missing anything:

oil, refined products, dyes >1875
petrol, vehicles >1890

This would mean that powerplants would only work with coal until 1875: shipyards, furniture factories, and textile mills would work without dyes until that date; and all the basic industries would not need vehicles to boost production until 1890.

An interesting variation could be to make basic industries accept livestock (i.e. horses) to boost production before 1890, and switch to vehicles after that date. This would recreate the fact that mines, construction sites etc. used to use animal power before trucks and tractors were invented. Would this be doable?

If we decide to follow this, the only heavily affected vectors would be the Chemical and the Machinery ones.

What do you guys think?

[Circeus]

As an aside, couldn't the glass plant be made to produce a "goods" form of glass? I mean, compared to all the other "middle" industries (like the lumber mill), its produce would be as much, if not more useful as a goods deliverable to cities. (making the glass plant accept dyes would be a plus: it tends to be a nightmare to get rid of all the dyes produced...).

[DaleStan]

Run a game with ECS basic, chemical 2 or wood vectors (beta 5)
Select the raw material industry and provide a service. The level grows 4%, 5%, 6% ... and suddenly jumps to 100%

And now for something completely different.
Csaba gave me some hints/suggestions; Belugas pointed me at OpenTTD's code, and a lot of things changed.

I actually never looked for that bug, but I watched several industries for several years with this code, and didn't see anything that looked suspicious. A couple halvings when the service suddenly went badly south, but when I looked harder, it happened because that's what callback 35 returned.