Major parts of Thameslink project nearing completion

[Ameecher]

So you've come to the conclusion that every train in the future will need to be replaced. Marvellous. Who could have predicted that?

The most sensible thing if you're desperate to get rid of PEP derived stock is to do an add-on to the new merseyrail fleet of trains that is being proposed at the minute.

[Ameecher]

So you've come to the conclusion that every train in the future will need to be replaced. Marvellous. Who could have predicted that?

The most sensible thing if you're desperate to get rid of PEP derived stock is to do an add-on to the new merseyrail fleet of trains that is being proposed at the minute.

And when will Merseyrail replace its rather old fleet?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=merseyrail+replacement+fleet

[Ameecher]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=merseyrail+replacement+fleet

That will mean at least 75 new (dual voltage) trains will be ordered for Merseyrail and another 63 for FCC and Southern. The best train for the job (not counting future trains) is the 377/5 (3/4-car)

Well it's not because you can't build them any more.

[Chris]

Those destinations are far enough to be Suburban destinations, in fact thise stations are better off served by proper suburban trains rather than metro trains (very good ones though)

You're wrong.

[Geo Ghost]

In that case, the only solution is that in the long term 313s need to be replaced by new trains

All trains will be replaced one day Alan. That isn't a solution, more stating the blindingly obvious.

[JamieLei]

Is it me or does Alan have some inability to think that we could invent new trains that might be more suitable, rather than using stuff that is 10 years old and already doesn't meet safety requirements (like Pendolinos?)

[Geo Ghost]

Allow me to re-word that Jamie if I may.

Is it me or does Alan have some inability to think

[Pilot]

Allow me to re-word that Jamie if I may.

Is it me or does Alan have some inability to think

Now that, is correct!

[Geo Ghost]

Hey guys.

A friend of mine has just shared this with me regarding FCC and Southern. Thoughts on this? Good or bad?

[JamieLei]

This was always going to be the case that Thameslink was to join Southern. The bit about splitting some of the Great Northern off to join East Coast however is new as far as I know though. Seems a bit odd to lump commuter services with either of the "Premium" long-distance franchises though!

[Geo Ghost]

Indeed. That sounds quite strange. If it's the long distance KingsCross-Kings Lyn... that kind of makes sense. It is rather odd though.
We'll soon see how that goes. Be interesting to see how it pans out though. Hopefully for the better.

Also to Alan before anything happens, none of this "I would plan something like this" stuff.

[EXTspotter]

I was thinking unless it is the KX - Cambridge/KL/Peterborough Express services only it really makes no sense. Maybe EC would combine the Peterborough Expresses into the Newark/York/Lincoln services.

[Nawdic]

The DfT have already cinfirmed this - the proposal itself to me is a good idea, I like the thought of Southampton-Bedford expresses!!

[Kevo00]

Sounds like a step towards a 'New Southern Railway'. Franchise changes are really a bit like the proverbial re-arranging of deck-chairs on a certain sinking boat - I'm not really convinced the shape of franchises or who holds them really matters that much.

[61653]

The DfT have already cinfirmed this - the proposal itself to me is a good idea, I like the thought of Southampton-Bedford expresses!!

Presumably that'd run via the West Coastway, so 'Express' is relative...

[EXTspotter]

Exactly - SWT has no way to route via Thameslink (without a load of wierd, circuituous routes though south London, e.g. via Wimbledon and the Sutton Loop or Portsmouth - Thameslink via Guildford - Leatherhead line). So it is the equivalent Southern service via Horsham and the coast...

[JamieLei]

What the Dft should do in this case is merge Southern with Southeastern and First Capital Connect, if the DFT wants to transfer some FCC servcies to EC, then they should KC-Kings Lynn services and Moorgate-Hertford North/Welwyn Garden City services.

I also think that Grand Central and First Hull Trains should be folded into EC as well

NO PLANS!

Grand Central and Hull Trains aren't franchises though, they're Open Access, which means they're entirely supported by the free market and have nothing to do with the government running the services. So even if you were prime minister, you'd have to abolish the entire system.

But yes, more on topic, I'm glad that the Thameslink programme isn't taking in the Cambridge fast services. RER-style routes generally work well for all-stations suburban routes, or semi-fasts, not the expresses. Even in Japan where suburban rail and metro inter-running is very common, the expresses will always go into the terminal and it's the locals that divert a few stops before the terminus onto the underground line. Else we'd have a load of very confused tourists wanting to get to Kentish Town but finding themselves on a non-stop service to Cambridge!

[Ameecher]

The reason that HT and GC exist is because the DfT wasn't interested in serving the market. That's unlikely to change. Things work how they do now, leave it alone. They're one of the few success stories of privatisation. I also doubt the taxpayer would be overwhelmed by the news that they were needlessly buying a company for the hell of it.

No more plans.

[JamieLei]

If parts of FCC were to be ceded to EC, then the Cambridge fasts and Kings Lynn services would be indeed sensible choices, along with the faster Peterborough services. I assume that if this happens, these faster services will continue to run into KX as a terminus, and the slower ones would run into Thameslink.

[Ameecher]

There's not much duplication though. If they were integrated into ICEC then they would just get dropped again. Competition from the two of those has forced EC to sort out its act over the last few years.