ToyLand Graphics Conversion

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 17:46

If you look at the chart, you will see:

Customs Warehouses (which look like seaports) generate Import Goods (rubber, tires, components, who knows, the idea is to give great scope for random vehicles)

Electronics Factories produce Export Goods (shock-mounted boxcars I think)

Car Factories produce Cars because I had to get an excuse to use Michael's beautiful car-carriers. This would also give a use for the car-transport ships when they come out.

So you have plenty of scope for all manner of cool rail vehicles, which was the idea.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 17:53

Might as well start talking about the trains themselves.

Another good reason for an East Asia environment is the huge variety of uniquely cool-looking trains and equipment.

Anyone who is interested, take a look at

http://www.tomy.co.jp/plarail/top.htm

This site is the Japanese site for the Tomy toy company, which makes an extensive line of toy trains. (I collect these too.) All the trains, no matter how weird looking, are in fact real, and I have ridden on many of them. You'll want to click on the second button down, in the left nav bar (the one with the little picture of an express locomotive.) Then you will get, in the right frame, a list of the more modern Japanese Shinkansen bullet trains (there are more, such as the original 100s, which aren't pictured, but they're easy to find.) Also in the right frame are links to more trains such as freight engines, old steam engines, etc. This is well worth a look, not only because of the huge variety of equipment shown, but also because they have already "shortened" them all to make them work as toys. And we have to "shorten" them too to make them fit in the one-square space available. So this saves some mental contortions.

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 13 Feb 2003 18:26

How dare you to show us toys instead of the real stuff!

http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Flats/1037/

Daid · Post by **Daid** » 13 Feb 2003 18:39

krtaylor your organizational chart is even better then mine

only a small but: You have to remember that some industries have limited GFX changing capability, like the "forest". It's hard to create a Ore mine from the Battery forest.
And the Toy shop isn't placed in a town, but near it. (but it will to i think)

Dinges (about "Only when city large enough"), oh, is that so? I'm not sure, it's the same as Goods in a "normal" game.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 18:45

May I suggest that we offer the following engines

C12 steam engine
D-51 steam engine

DD-51 diesel locomotive

EF15 early electric freight locomotive
EF66 mid electric freight locomotive
EH500 Kin Taro modern electric freight locomotive

0 Series Shinkansen (with matching cars)
500 Series Shinkansen (with matching cars)

And one of the not-so-fast-as Shinkansen passenger trainsets.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 18:51

>> You have to remember that some industries have limited GFX changing capability, like the "forest". It's hard to create a Ore mine from the Battery forest.

Good point. OK, I switched them, the Battery forest is now the Beach / Sandy Pit. We can make it dunes blowing around I think, that should work. The Ore mine can be the other one.

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 13 Feb 2003 19:01

Te better would be replace 'batteries' for ore mine
and 'plastic' for sand

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 19:05

From the point of view of the vector chart, it makes no difference which is which. Maybe it's simplest just to let the artist who draws them determine which one is better suited for which.

Daid · Post by **Daid** » 13 Feb 2003 19:58

(Ok another try, the last 2 times i tried to post this message my internet explorer crashed)

What do you guys think?
[EDIT]Image deleted, saves space on forum[/EDIT]

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 20:04

Excellent start, Daid! And it's smaller, so that fits with the "mini-mill" concept.

Is that silo-looking thing part of the industry? You could replace that with a pile o'scrap, maybe even a crane moving over it picking up junk to feed the fire.

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 13 Feb 2003 20:09

yep .. small ... maybea bit too small ...but's ok

Daid · Post by **Daid** » 13 Feb 2003 21:07

The problem is that the Toffy Quarry it only 3 squares :S

The silo is a fuel tank or so, they have to keep the fire burning

i couldn't get it any close, becouse the pictures wouldn't allow it.

But if you hand me a pile o'scrap

i could change it.

And I can't do the crane, to hard for me, i'm just a n00b with some Copy/Paste skills.

Oh, well off looking for scrap

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 21:23

Do you have a copy of Sim City 3000? That would be fantastically helpful for this project. I know they have piles of scrap, as well as Asian buildings, etc. I have the game but am a crummy artist, even for cut & paste. I'm just not coordinated enough.

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 13 Feb 2003 21:26

Daid wrote:The problem is that the Toffy Quarry it only 3 squares :S

The silo is a fuel tank or so, they have to keep the fire burning i couldn't get it any close, becouse the pictures wouldn't allow it.

But if you hand me a pile o'scrap i could change it.

And I can't do the crane, to hard for me, i'm just a n00b with some Copy/Paste skills.

Oh, well off looking for scrap

.. maybe you could put this mill instead of another industry .. you must select industries good to fit them to owners

Daid · Post by **Daid** » 13 Feb 2003 21:43

Well, if you look at the Transport Layout Diagram, then a mini steel mill is in replacement for the Toffy thingy.

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 13 Feb 2003 21:44

krtaylor wrote:Good point. OK, I switched them, the Battery forest is now the Beach / Sandy Pit. We can make it dunes blowing around I think, that should work. The Ore mine can be the other one.

IMveryHO

Scrap Yard <-> battery farm (Steel)
Plastics Plant <-> plastic fountains (plastics)

Car factory <-> Toy factory (cars)

Export warehouse <-> Toy shop

Second production line

Rice Paddy <-> Candyfloss Forest (rice)
Pig/chicken/whatever farm <-> tefee quarry (meat)
Soybean Plantation <-> sugar mine (soybean)

Food processing plant <-> Sweets plant (food)

Third Production Line

Silicon Plant <-> cola wells (silicon wafers)
Bauxite Mine <-> bubble processor (bauxite)

Factory <-> Fizzy drink fab (goods)

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 21:47

Let me make a quick point here.

Inside of one level of one vector, the graphics are interchangeable. For instance, the Hi-tech vector starts with Mine and Beach. Right now those are mapped onto the Plastic and Batteries industries of Toyland as Plastic = Mine, and Batteries = Beach, but we could easily switch them the other way if it helped.

Similarly, we have
CandyFloss = Customs Import Warehouse
Toffee = Steel MiniMill
Sugar = Plastics Components Plant

But it doesn't have to be this way, we can interchange them if the graphics match better.

Personally, I think the Steel MiniMill is the best match for the small Toffee industry. A mini-mill is not as big as a full-scale steel mill. I think three squares is all it has to have - one for the furnace, one for a pile o'scrap and crane, and one for something else like a fuel tank.

The Customs Import Warehouse is not just a big building, I envisioned it as looking like a seaport or at least a trucking transit center.

The Plastics Component plant is pretty much a low-lying factory like you have zillions of out near LA. Basically the cast-concrete walls, and a flat roof with air-conditioners, etc., maybe a smokestack.

I'm not sure exactly how the sprites are laid out for the Toyland industries, and thus which ones would map best. I'm simply making the point that the exact analogies are not set in stone, so if there's a good reason to switch them, by all means, let's switch them. Just let me know and I'll update the chart.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 13 Feb 2003 21:55

In answer to the proposed realignment of vectors -

The reason I didn't do it this way is because I thought that industrial commodities made for a more interesting variety of train cargoes than farming commodities. We've already seen most of the likely farm transport cars in the game. So I set two agricultural industries more for providing graphic opportunities (like terraces for rice farms) than anything else, but I didn't use the three-way vector on agriculture.

I realize there are limitations on what we can do with the sprites. If one of my analogies is too forced and won't work, then OK, we will certainly change it. That is why I wanted to get the chart fully ironed out before we started work, so we didn't have to waste time switching perfectly good graphics around later.

It is my understanding that we cannot realign the vectors, we have to work with the vectors it comes with; and also we have to work with the sprites as assigned to the root industries. So the trick is to carefully align the new industries to the old so the vectors will work sensibly and also the graphics will work right too.

What does everyone think?

Daid · Post by **Daid** » 13 Feb 2003 22:00

ARGH, ok, i'll be doing road GFX or something like that, stuff that doesn't change all the time

BTW, here is the site for download (I hope)

uzurpator · Post by **uzurpator** » 13 Feb 2003 22:04

The problem is the fact, that all you can do is replace current graphics. Mini mills or anything else will look jerky (IMO). As for the agriculture - that is what sells the most. The main reason for the switch was the fact that it will be easier to make anything agocultural with two vast industries (sugar mine and candyfloss forest) than with one small and one large.

Also - you cannot sell thousands of cars to a single city each month. Goods (pointing to electronics mind you) otoh will sell. You can reassign the two vectors (goods and food) at will. But making third indistry for goods will make a problem IMO. remember, that you have to make it vast (like candyfloss forest) and modular since that what forests are amde of. Another rubber plantatnion?

EDIT - selling CARS or GOODS to a small city will be an idiocy. Switching vectors will make such situation...

Transport Tycoon Forums

ToyLand Graphics Conversion

Who is online