new name for YAPP "advanced signals"

[Tekky]

Now that YAPP (Yet Another PBS Patch) is in trunk, I think we should start a serious discussion about the name of these new signals. Currently, they are called "advanced signals". I don't consider this name appropriate, as it does not specify in what way they are advanced. TTDPatch, for example, has "programmable signals", which are also a form of advanced signals. Therefore, I am in favor of officially calling the signals "PBS signals", as that's what most people call them anyway.

This has already been discussed a bit in the YAPP development thread. However, I consider it appropriate that this matter is given its own thread. Therefore, I will quote some of what has already been said here:

I think "routing signals" or "intelligent signals" probably describes them better than "advanced." Another problem with advanced is that it could cause confusion if advance signals are introduced, and get called that (instead of, say, distant, or repeat).

If it were up to me, YAPP signals would totally and exclusively supersede all other signal types. Make regular signals and presignals a patch option, and turn them off by default! I know that's not going to happen, but still!

I agree that a more informative name would be preferable. "Advanced signals" sounds like its something a newbie shouldn't be using, but that's far from the truth. Plus "PBS signals" sounds like pigeon-holing, without actually describing what they do.

They are meant to denote safe waiting positions aren't they? What about "waiting signals" or "holding signals"?

I like Brianetta's suggestion of "routing signals". However, this could maybe be confused with TTDPatch's programmable signals which offer conditional routing.... Therefore, I do still prefer the term "PBS signals" slightly.

It was said that OpenTTD's YAPP signals were different to TTDPatch's PBS signals. I disagree with this. They are nearly the same, especially since the introduction of TTDPatch through signals.

EDIT: I have introduced a poll in this thread. You may still make new proposals and I will add them to the poll. Since users are able to change their vote even after it has been cast, the poll will remain fair also for newly added proposals. In case I have overlooked a proposal, please inform me so that I can add it to the poll.

[Eddi]

German name should be "Fahrstraßensignale", which is more or less what PBS is supposed to mean.


But i have an alternate suggestion: PBS signals should be just called "Signal", and the "legacy signals" should be hidden by default. they are a better choice for almost all purposes except coop-style priority signals, and defaults should be good for the newbies, not the professionals who know how to change them.

It could also be useful to call the old signals "Block Signals" and the new signals "Path Signals".

i'm not really for calling them "PBS" signals, because it's an abbreviation that will only confuse new users.

[Tekky]

Ah, yes, I like your idea of "block" and "path" signals, they are short and very descriptive names. But how will you call "pre-, exit- and combo-signals"? Would you just append the word "block" to their name?

[CommanderZ]

I would call them just "Signals", renaming original signals to "Block signals". Maybe we could even swap PBS signal graphics with default signals one (without the yellow dot).

I will have yet to play more with PBS to see how much obsolete orignal signals and presignals are.

[Tekky]

Maybe we could even swap PBS signal graphics with default signals one (without the yellow dot).

Yes, good idea. However, this would have to be a patch option, because some OpenTTD players still prefer traditional OpenTTD signalling.

[FooBar]

I don't think 'waiting' or 'holding' or something similar -signals is a good term, as PBS is about more than safe waiting positions alone. We must not forget the path reserving part of it.

I'm all in favour of renaming the old signals to 'block signals'.

'path signals' for the PBS signals could work, but I think 'route signals' (or 'routing signals') would be a good option. 'Route' is about the path trains reserve to get to another signal. And 'route' is about not letting trains wait in another train's path.

I don't think the graphics should be swapped. Changing the text in the manual is not too much of a problem, but changing all images will get a bit annoying.

Anyways, that's my $0,04

[Brianetta]

"block" and "route" are my favourites.

[XeryusTC]

Seconded.

[mph]

SWP of course
For Safe Waiting Point.

I'm with AndersI on this one.

[Purno]

"block" and "route" are my favourites.

Agreed.

SWP of course
For Safe Waiting Point.

I'm with AndersI on this one.

Abbreviations (spelling?) only confuse people.

[Eddi]

somehow... "route" doesn't have the correct feeling to it...

i'm not a native speaker, but for me, "route" has a global annotation, i.e. planning from starting point to target point (orders). signals are very local, and have only small effect on the global route. "route signal" would cause very wrong associations if i first heard the term.

[Mchl]

I'll go again with my Track Reserving Signals

[Purno]

Why not "Path Reserving Signals"?

[Mchl]

Why not "Path Reserving Signals"?

Not bad either

[Tekky]

I have introduced a poll in this thread. You may still make new proposals and I will add them to the poll. Since users are able to change their vote even after it has been cast, the poll will remain fair also for newly added proposals. In case I have overlooked a proposal, please inform me so that I can add it to the poll.

[Purno]

AFAIK poll results get reset after an option is added or removed.

[Tekky]

AFAIK poll results get reset after an option is added or removed.

Does anyone know for sure whether this is true? If it is, then I will have to think twice before adding new options.

[rEXpert]

AFAIK poll results get reset after an option is added or removed.

Does anyone know for sure whether this is true? If it is, then I will have to think twice before adding new options.

I'm 99% sure that that is the case. Anyway, I think they should be called PBS signals, because that is what most people know them as.

[Michi_cc]

Anyway, I think they should be called PBS signals, because that is what most people know them as.

Who is "most people"? According to SourceForge, 0.6.0 had over 100000 downloads, I strongly doubt that most of these users have any clue what PBS could mean.

-- Michael Lutz

[Zuu]

I think they should be called "Path reserving signals" and second best would be "path signals". A benefit of the shorter "path signals" through is that it has lower chance of getting abbreviated.

I don't think we should use the name PBS signals. PBS stands for path based signaling (or signals) if I remember it correctly. Better have a non-abbreviated name that somewhat tells what the signals are. Also I think those who know what PBS is and stand for will not have much problem understanding that "path signals" or "path reserving signals" are a feature similar to PBS.