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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:01 pm 
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Transport Coordinator
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Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:26 pm
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Wow, multi-company :) Nice job!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:57 pm 
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Engineer
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:52 pm
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Haven't been playing for a while, but I got my new bright and shining Asus ROG laptop so now I might play again :D What you are doing here looks absolutly amasing and I will definetly keep watching it as it evolves, hoping for it to end up in a nice patchpack! Keep up the good work!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:13 am 
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Diamond42 wrote:
Some interesting behavior regarding multi company airports. When you build an aircraft in a hangar on the other side of the airport from where their company assigned gates are, it will allow you to start the vehicle but it wont leave the hangar. I guess taxi paths are only defined to nearby gates. You can get around this by sending the aircraft to its next airport and it will happily taxi out.


That is correct. Not all Hangars can path to all Terminals. This is particularly true with the Terminus Airports.
You can do exactly what you did. Just skip and they will takeoff at the nearby runway.

Diamond42 wrote:
Secondly if a runway doesn't lead to a companies assigned gates it wont land on that runway. For example I have a company operating out of the large airport in the first picture using only 2 gates. Even though there are 4 runways, they will only ever use the runway closest to them even though others may be free. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it allows smaller airlines to get a foothold in others hubs.


Again, this is correct an by design. Very large airports do not have paths from all runways to all terminals. So the planes will only land at runways that service the nearby terminals.
This is to make the airports more efficient.
One thing you can do is to remove the owner from all terminals on that section of the airport and then that companies planes will not land there.

Diamond42 wrote:
One small thing I would love is the ability to define waiting times at gates at an airport, just to help get that feeling of a busy hub, seeing lots of gates full. At the moment My aircraft circle more than they sit at gates because in the game landing takes longer than a turnaround at a gate, which is the opposite ofreal life.

Working on a solution for the landing issue. Going to try and improve landings while keeping the plane separation realistic.
But you can do a couple of things.... one is to use Full Load. Or the other is to use the timetable.
Both will keep the planes longer.

Diamond42 wrote:
Overall love the patch and happy to contribute if there is anything I can do?

Just keep posting issues and ideas...
One idea I had and will run by you...
When you give planes orders, That you could click a gate to assign the plane to go to that gate only.
So you could click any open tile at the airport to assign it to go to that airport (Default), but if you click a gate then it would further refine it to only go to that gate.

The Hangar placement bothers me in your pics.
I think I will compile 2 different version... One for base graphics and the other for ZBase.
Apparently ZBase has a bug and has the offset wrong on the hangar placements.

The other thing from your pics is that you are not using the newGRF in the zip file.
If you use that, the terminal gates will show you the owner color.


Last edited by Vetteman06 on Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:22 am 
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Engineer
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juval wrote:
hoping for it to end up in a nice patchpack!


Not sure I will try and tackle a complete patch pack yet...
Kinda hoping that once I get everything finished that one of the patch pack managers wants to pick it up.
But the Multi-company thing might be a problem, since it does alter payment for all cargo types, not just passengers, mail, and valuables.
I have thought of separating them...
Make payments for planes be different than for trains/road/ships...
Will see when I get things more complete and stable.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:34 am 
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huub007 wrote:
Looks nice, but Schiphol has 6 runways and I only see 4 in your mockup. But the rest looks great to me.


Another mockup...


Attachments:
Schiphol.png
Schiphol.png [ 27.73 KiB | Viewed 2741 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Engineer
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58 am
Posts: 35
Hey Vetteman06,

Thanks for the reply, I remember you said you were going out of town so I hope you had a nice break!

Re: waiting times at the gates, full load takes a tiny bit more time, but most of my airports have many transit pax in them so it doesn't make much of a difference. I've tried using the timetable but in this build it doesn't work, if I change the waiting time from 1 day to 10 days it just stays the exact amount of time. There used to be a patch ages ago that added a minimum wait time to each airport window, this could fit into the airport control window in this patch quite well!

Also I love the idea of being able to allocate specific gates as well as assign company gates. Bravo!

I added the newgrf but must have forgot to activate it!

I'm flying all this week (I'm an airline pilot) so I'll try to think of some cool new features!

Thanks again for all your hard work!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:43 pm 
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Engineer
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Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:02 am
Posts: 61
Vetteman06 wrote:
huub007 wrote:
Looks nice, but Schiphol has 6 runways and I only see 4 in your mockup. But the rest looks great to me.


Another mockup...


Looks very nice, I think


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:43 am 
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Engineer
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58 am
Posts: 35
Hey Vetteman06

Sorry for the delay, just got back from a few fairly long work trips. I've found a few new bugs and come up with a possible feature request for you!

Firstly, the bugs.

When building any kind of airport, you cant build it unless the ground is completely flat, where as you used to be able to place them if the edges were sloped.

If you build an airport and then attach a train station to it, and accidently click the train station instead of the airport when giving aircraft orders (like when you are zoomed out) the game will crash.

Every now and then aircraft from another company will not land at an airport, even when there are no planes in the way. When you change company to the same one as the planes, and open the airport control panel, they suddenly land. Although the airport was never closed. This is most common with the small and city airports.

Secondly a feature request...

With 8 companies to play it means that you cant have more than a few airlines flying to each airport if they are small. So lets say more than 3 companies want to infrequently fly to one airport they cant, unless you build a big terminal. Is there anyway to introduce a multiple companies for gates?

Many thanks on this amazing patch! ps. lets get an Australian airport in there!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:15 am 
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Engineer
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Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:39 pm
Posts: 52
Welcome back Diamond42

I have been working on several bug fixes, new landing cycle, and Infrastructure cost changes.
Companies will be billed for each terminal they use instead of per airport if you have Infrastructure Maintenance costs enabled.
I am very close to a release... Been doing a lot of stress testing to make sure the new landing cycle is ok.

Diamond42 wrote:
When building any kind of airport, you cant build it unless the ground is completely flat, where as you used to be able to place them if the edges were sloped.

This is by design right now. It is on my todo list to correct.
It only does this when using the ALT key. if you use the regular way, it will build on a slope.

Diamond42 wrote:
If you build an airport and then attach a train station to it, and accidently click the train station instead of the airport when giving aircraft orders (like when you are zoomed out) the game will crash.

Ok, that is a new one.... I'll look into it. But I can see how that would be possible.
Ok, I found it and fixed it... Will be in next patch.

Diamond42 wrote:
Every now and then aircraft from another company will not land at an airport, even when there are no planes in the way. When you change company to the same one as the planes, and open the airport control panel, they suddenly land. Although the airport was never closed. This is most common with the small and city airports.

Hmmm, this one should not be possible. I found more bugs in the CITY airport that I have fixed, but have not seen this.
I'll go back and try to create this one.

Diamond42 wrote:
With 8 companies to play it means that you cant have more than a few airlines flying to each airport if they are small. So lets say more than 3 companies want to infrequently fly to one airport they cant, unless you build a big terminal. Is there anyway to introduce a multiple companies for gates?

I have thought about this one and looked into it a bit but put it off.
There are 3 ways to go with this...
1) Allow you to select multiple companies on the Terminal View window. But the color indicator cannot be any one company... So would have to reserve a color to represent "Multiple Companies". This would be a major undertaking... The problem is owner is a byte, not a flag. So the entire owner system would have to be re-written to allow this.
2) Reserve another Company to be OWNER_ALL. If you set this, then any company could use that gate. There are 16 Companies and 1 is already reserved. OWNER_TOWN. This would mean you could only play with up to 14 Companies. Also, reserving a color for this. The other issue is that this opens the airport to anyone. For single player this is ok. But for Multi-player, it would mean someone could do a DoS attack... essentially flood the airport with planes to keep it so busy, no one could use it. This would be much easier to implement though.
3) Build some airports that have lots of terminals and few runways. Partly why I build the Large Commuter airport. 6 terminals, 1 runway.

I have been doing #3 as it is the easiest...
#2 isn't to bad to implement. Just has a risk.
#1 is a major change.

Diamond42 wrote:
ps. lets get an Australian airport in there!

Got one in mind? I looked at Sydney...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:04 pm 
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Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58 am
Posts: 35
Good to be back! :-)

Vetteman06 wrote:
2) Reserve another Company to be OWNER_ALL. If you set this, then any company could use that gate. There are 16 Companies and 1 is already reserved. OWNER_TOWN. This would mean you could only play with up to 14 Companies. Also, reserving a color for this. The other issue is that this opens the airport to anyone. For single player this is ok. But for Multi-player, it would mean someone could do a DoS attack... essentially flood the airport with planes to keep it so busy, no one could use it. This would be much easier to implement though.
3) Build some airports that have lots of terminals and few runways. Partly why I build the Large Commuter airport. 6 terminals, 1 runway.

I have been doing #3 as it is the easiest...
#2 isn't to bad to implement. Just has a risk.
#1 is a major change.


I would recommend number two, it's the least work, and although it leaves the smaller airports open to a bit of mischief in multi-player it's by far the best solution. Also there are and will always be ways for stupid players to ruin things, eg. the dumb railroad crossing thing!


Vetteman06 wrote:
ps. lets get an Australian airport in there!
Got one in mind? I looked at Sydney...


Sydney would be cool, but so would Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth or Canberra. Pick one that is interesting or at least not too similar to what we have now in the patch!

Great to hear you're working on a new build. Feel free to shoot it over if you want an additional person bug-testing it!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:56 pm 
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Engineer
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Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:39 pm
Posts: 52
Previous Update Notes

v1.20 Changes
- *** Save Games will not carry forward properly with this build. Too many tile changes to support Rotations. (If you want to try... Close all airports first, get all planes in air. Save, upgrade, Replace/Upgrade all airports.)
- Updated to 1.5.3 version. 27462 is 1.5.3, but for some reason I cannot get svn to update to that version... So I went with the one right before... 27460.
- Rotations are now enabled at most airports. (Country, City, Metropolitan do not)
- No Building airports are now just additional rotations. No separate build needed.
- ALT key enabled, While placing an airport, holding the ALT key will change it to show actual airport tiles instead of a highlight. Invisibility is retained.
- ALT+Mouse Wheel = Change rotation. This will allow you to select the proper rotation and see it. (Keeps from needing 100's of preview sprites.)
- ALT+Click = Auto Terra form of land. Should be used sparingly. No cost yet, but will be.
- Terminus Airports and Intercontinental airport now land planes on all runways.
- Fixed the condition where one of the reservations was not working at Country, City, Metropolitan airports. (Thanks Diamond42)
- Fixed Orthogonal issue with the no buildings option. (Thanks Quast65)
- Moved the wind sock at Country over to edge of airport instead of middle of tile.
- Changes all airports to not land planes when one is still on runway.
- Changed most airports holding patterns to fix the issue of fast planes crabbing on landing.


v1.10 Changes
- There are now 3 terminal types, Passenger, Cargo, Helipad. Cargo and Helipads share same ID. This allows cargo planes to use the Helipads.
- Cargo planes will not use passenger terminals anymore. They have to go to cargo terminals.
- New Airport Category, Cargo Airports. No Passengers allowed.
- Airports now have "holes" in them. They can now be irregular in size and shape.
- Airport highlight for placing airports now show true airport form instead of rectangle.
- 3 New Cargo Airports. Cargo Small, Cargo Large, Cargo X-Large.
- 4 New Large Airports. SanFran, Leipzig, Windy, Commuter Large.
- It is very Windy and the Windy airport... Planes have to crab on landing and takeoff.
- Intercontinental airport totally reworked from ground up.
- Fixed a lot of Helicopter Bugs. Helicopter leaving Hangar invisible, etc.
- Fixed 2 possible lockup conditions at the Terminus3 airport.
- Did a 100 year stress test of all airports.

v1.01 Changes
- Added copyright info and included the bundle files.
- Changed Closed Airport to also tell all full load airplanes to leave airport.
- Fixed bug where Full load restriction terminals were not working properly.

Notes:
* Save game upgrade. I wasn't sure how this works, but I attempted to allow a save game update. Please make a backup of your save game first. This basically throws all the airplanes up into the air and resets the airports and airplanes. Since the NewGRF won't be there, you won't have the previews, but everything else should work.
* The airports states were modified and all airports had their orders updated. So performance should improve at those airports.
* Some terminals at each airport have full load restrictions. So the airports should never get in a locked state if you play with Full Load orders.
* New Airport state, planes now back out of terminal.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:56 am 
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Engineer
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58 am
Posts: 35
Hey Vetteman06

Great work on the new version, but I've just loaded it and it's got a fairly major bug. After about 5 mins I realized that when I change companies all other companies air craft do not land at airports, all airports. So if I'm player 1, planes from company 1 land, then change to 2, and planes from company one all circle and company 2 land.

Happening at Intl, Schipol and City, they're the only three Ive built before going back to the old version till it's fixed, so its probably affecting all airports!

As always, your work is amazing, keep it up, we all really appreciate it!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:48 pm 
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Engineer
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:03 pm
Posts: 84
I want this to be in trunk!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:19 pm 
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Posts: 52
TrainLover wrote:
I want this to be in trunk!

Thanks for the response!!! But the devs want airports to be NewGRF's instead of coded. So there is no chance...


Diamond42 wrote:
Great work on the new version, but I've just loaded it and it's got a fairly major bug. After about 5 mins I realized that when I change companies all other companies air craft do not land at airports, all airports. So if I'm player 1, planes from company 1 land, then change to 2, and planes from company one all circle and company 2 land.

I could not duplicate it with 2 companies...

But, I could duplicate it with 3 companies... Company 1 builds the airport and gives Company 2 access.
If I am on either Company1 or Company 2 everything seems to work.
But if I switch to Company 3, then Company 1 works, but Company 2 stops landing....

I'll try to post an update...
Posted 1.41 which should fix that issue.
Let me know if it is working...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:49 am 
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Vetteman06 wrote:
TrainLover wrote:
I want this to be in trunk!

Thanks for the response!!! But the devs want airports to be NewGRF's instead of coded. So there is no chance...


Diamond42 wrote:
Great work on the new version, but I've just loaded it and it's got a fairly major bug. After about 5 mins I realized that when I change companies all other companies air craft do not land at airports, all airports. So if I'm player 1, planes from company 1 land, then change to 2, and planes from company one all circle and company 2 land.

I could not duplicate it with 2 companies...

But, I could duplicate it with 3 companies... Company 1 builds the airport and gives Company 2 access.
If I am on either Company1 or Company 2 everything seems to work.
But if I switch to Company 3, then Company 1 works, but Company 2 stops landing....

I'll try to post an update...
Posted 1.41 which should fix that issue.
Let me know if it is working...

I thought you can't code airports in NewGRFs. That's why there was stuff with Yexo's airports. Did they finally put it so that one could put in NewGRF airports?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:38 am 
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TrainLover wrote:
I thought you can't code airports in NewGRFs. That's why there was stuff with Yexo's airports. Did they finally put it so that one could put in NewGRF airports?


I am not sure...
On the first page of this thread, planetmaker asked to make the airports modular.
I replied why I thought it would be extremely hard to do something like that...
Main flow is ok, reverse flow reservation would be extremely difficult.

Close to 3 years ago, I posted a patch for the International Airport.
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1090044#p1090044
I was told back then that the intended direction was to move to NewGRF's.
So I stopped working on it and waited...

Anyway, I got tired of waiting and decided to do this anyway.
Maybe it will provoke someone with more coding skills to re-write the whole system and make it NewGRF intermingled.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:57 am 
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Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58 am
Posts: 35
Hey Vetteman06,

Thanks for getting the 1.41 patch out so fast, you're a legend.

One final bug, when using the Indy airport planes can land on runways that do not connect to their assigned gates, they then simply wait in the hanger. Ive attached a screenshot, the blue aircraft occupy the pier on the right, even when all gates are free they dont take the path I've drawn in blue (that they should) instead they take the path in red and just wait forever in the hanger, all my aircraft were dissapearing and I couldn't figure out where they went haha!

I think this is a new bug, as the indy airport worked perfectly prior!

Again, I love love love your work, keep it up!


Attachments:
Should.png [386.48 KiB]
Not downloaded yet
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:12 am 
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Engineer
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58 am
Posts: 35
Stop press, I solved it. Not really a bug more a quirk.

It looks like when you own the airport, the game doesnt check for paths to gates or even that you have a gate to use. So if player one builds an airport, and assigns all gates to player two or three, player one aircraft will land and go to hangar. Or in the case of the above, if you own the airport, no matter what gates you own it will allow you to land on all runways, then simply send your aircraft to a hanger if its landed on the wrong runway.

Solution: use a seperate airport only company to build all airports, like company 14.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:39 pm
Posts: 52
Diamond42 wrote:
It looks like when you own the airport, the game doesnt check for paths to gates or even that you have a gate to use.


Ok, I can fix this very easily....
I had not thought of this condition.
:oops:
1.42 posted to fix both of these...

Basically it does 4 checks when a plane enters the airspace of an airport...
1) It checks to see if the vehicle matches the station type. i.e. it is an airplane trying to land at an airport. If it passes it goes to step 2.
2) It checks to see if the station owner is OWNER_NONE. (This is for the oilrigs.) If this passes, it skips steps 3 & 4, and allows the landing.
3) It checks to see if the vehicle owner is the same as the station owner. If this passes it skips step 4 and allows the landing.
4) It checks to see if the vehicle owner has a terminal at the airport. If this passes it allows the landing.

I just need to remove step 3 from the checks...

After this initial check above, it then later checks to see which runway it is allowed to use.
And this is where it should have failed.
Because there would not be a terminal on any runway that would allow the landing at that runway.
Except Cargo terminals...
I am guessing that you re-assigned all the passenger terminals but did nothing with the cargo terminals.
At Indy, all 4 runways can land cargo planes.

So there is another bug...
A Passenger plane should not be checking against a cargo terminal for landing. And vice versa.
This one may take me a little while to fix.
But I will fix both and post an update.


Diamond42 wrote:
Solution: use a seperate airport only company to build all airports, like company 14.


Well, I have structured everything to eventually have the possibility of Town owned airports.
I tried to implement it once before. Got everything working correctly except the link graphs...
I never could get them working correctly and eventually gave up on it.
Not sure I want to try again...

The other thing is...
If a town builds/owns the airport, then it will decide what to use for an airport, not the player.
I am not sure I like that idea...

But another idea it to get rid of the catchment and do "Entire Town Catchment"
This would remove the "2 airports per town" idea though.
And Noise would be changed to limit airport upgrades. Or maybe remove noise and use population.
So a small town would only allow small airports, as it grew, it would then allow medium airports, then finally large.
The exception would be Terminus airports. And the cost would keep them from being used everywhere.
Towns would lock on to the nearest airport and give all the people to it. Say within 50 tiles of town center or something.
I have been toying with this idea...
Would make use of the airport classifications.
But would probably need a few more airports in the small and medium classifications.
This would also fit in with the idea of town owned airports if I try again.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:17 am 
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Engineer
Engineer

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58 am
Posts: 35
Hey Vetteman06,

Thanks for the great bug-fix, I havent come across any bugs with the new release! Amazingeffort.

RE: town owned airports, I honestly don't think they are needed, it seems like a lot of work and personally I love the system the way it stands now.

The only thing I think its missing is a common user terminal, and then its pretty much perfect!

Well done!


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