The following attachment contains my updated Locomotive and Wagon charts for this set. They are listed by introduction year. They were produced for my own use so they do not include all of the information that was contained in the similar charts from the original Read_Me file. They may also contain information that was not found in the original Read_Me file that I added for my own clarification. It had been awhile since I originally created these charts so my memory of what is and is not included when compared to the originals is a bit hazy. They are compatible with the latest release (v0.87d) of the set. I have included both the OpenOffice and MS Word versions in the zip file. Enjoy.krtaylor wrote:Sure, go ahead and post them, we may as well have a look.
US Set Development Thread
Moderator: Graphics Moderators
Re: US Set Development Thread
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- US Set Charts.zip
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Humor is the second most subjective thing on the planet
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Brevity is the soul of wit and obscenity is its downfall
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Good Night And Good Luck - Read You Soon
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Brevity is the soul of wit and obscenity is its downfall
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Good Night And Good Luck - Read You Soon
Re: US Set Development Thread
A 'source' would never have that form; beholdwallyweb wrote:The grf is compiled from the source, therefore decompilation produces the source.DJ Nekkid wrote:that was not much of a source, that looked merely like a pure decompiled version.
That is not even remotely humanly readable unless its split up somehow, and tbh, i concider myself a rather good coder, as well as a human whom can read. Not to mention the action0's from sprite39 and onward. That is at the brink of beeing not possible to even 'decrypt' as i've done with the code above. Well, it is possible, but it would take quite A LOT of time, and is veryvery easy to make mistakes.'The source' wrote:Code: Select all
3029 * 22 02 00 27 82 46 08 03 03 00 00 00 00 01 00 01 01 02 00 02 02 03 00 3030 * 14 02 00 2A 81 10 00 FF 01 2C FF 01 01 FF FF 3031 * 18 02 00 2B 81 0C 00 FF 02 2A 00 16 16 09 "ÿ##'" 00 3032 * 14 02 00 30 81 0C 00 FF 01 00 FF 11 11 0A 00 //OLD Class F 'Berkshire', tender 3033 * 7 03 00 01 06 00 2B 00 3034 * 7 03 00 81 2C 00 30 00 3035 * 4 01 00 02 08
The 'real' source would probably have looked something similar to this:
Code: Select all
// Animate
3029 * 22 02 00 27 82 46 08 03 03
00 00 00 00 // 1st frame
01 00 01 01 // 2nd frame
02 00 02 02 // 3rd frame
03 00 // 4th frame
// Extra callback info - Articulation
3030 * 14 02 00 2A 81 10 00 FF 01 // 1 case
2C FF 01 01 // add vehicle id 2C at position 1
FF FF // terminate articulation
// Callbacks Engine
3031 * 18 02 00 2B 81 0C 00 FF 02 // 2 callbacks
2A 00 16 16 // articulation
09 "ÿ##'" // dunno, probably p-list text
27 00 // attach gfx
// Callbacks Tender
3032 * 14 02 00 30 81 0C 00 FF 01 // 1 callback
00 FF 11 11 // wagon length
0A 00 // attack gfx
// Action 3
3033 * 7 03 00 01 06 00 2B 00 // Engine
3034 * 7 03 00 81 2C 00 30 00 // Livery Override Tender
Re: US Set Development Thread
Well, I am sorry, but it's what I've got. You have perhaps discovered why there are very very few people able to code an entire set.
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Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
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Japan, American Transition, Planeset, and Project Generic Stations available there
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Re: US Set Development Thread
Not reallywallyweb wrote:The grf is compiled from the source, therefore decompilation produces the source.
If you decompile FIRS / HEQS / FISH / 2CC / ISR etc, you don't get the source, you get decompiled nfo which is almost entirely un-commented bytecode. That violates at least the spirit of the GPL
Many of the bigger sets are built with makefiles + templating systems. The source would include those tools and templates.
However if decompiled nfo is all there is...not much more to be said
FIRS Industry Replacement Set (released) | HEQS Heavy Equipment Set (trucks, industrial trams and more) (finished)
Unsinkable Sam (ships) (preview released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (finished)
Iron Horse ((trains) (released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse) (released) | Busy Bee (game script) (released)
Road Hog (road vehicles and trams) (released)
Unsinkable Sam (ships) (preview released) | CHIPS Has Improved Players' Stations (finished)
Iron Horse ((trains) (released) | Termite (tracks for Iron Horse) (released) | Busy Bee (game script) (released)
Road Hog (road vehicles and trams) (released)
Re: US Set Development Thread
And andy, even "worse".
The way we code theese days (atleast i do Even 'the source' often differs quite A LOT from the the final NFO before compiling
The way we code theese days (atleast i do Even 'the source' often differs quite A LOT from the the final NFO before compiling
Re: US Set Development Thread
The code (nfo) is the source. That (and the pcx) is all that is required to encode a grf and, license permitting, alter the code. Any comments are superfluous and are there merely as a courtesy from the original author. Perhaps this violates the spirit of the GPL but hexadecimals and the resulting drive to drink notwithstanding, spirits do not a source code make.andythenorth & DJ Nekkid wrote:...
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- planetmaker
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Re: US Set Development Thread
wallyweb wrote:The code (nfo) is the source. That (and the pcx) is all that is required to encode a grf and, license permitting, alter the code. Any comments are superfluous and are there merely as a courtesy from the original author. Perhaps this violates the spirit of the GPL but hexadecimals and the resulting drive to drink notwithstanding, spirits do not a source code make.andythenorth & DJ Nekkid wrote:...
(emphasis mine)http://www.linfo.org/source_code.html wrote: Source code (also referred to as source or code) is the version of software as it is originally written (i.e., typed into a computer) by a human in plain text (i.e., human readable alphanumeric characters).
A de-compiled binary thus does not count as source even though it would bring the result when compiling again. Thus handing out a mere de-compilation of the binary when the source is asked for or required is not 'good enough'.
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Re: US Set Development Thread
Aside from this discussion about what a source code is and what not; They've given us everything they have.
That there is no better source code available is unfortunate, but s*** happens, and discussing about it doesn't bring you that source code.
That there is no better source code available is unfortunate, but s*** happens, and discussing about it doesn't bring you that source code.
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- planetmaker
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Re: US Set Development Thread
That is no source code. In absence of those one can and has to - as last resort - use the de-compiled code which was presented, but which is also something everyone can obtain by means of grfcodec. Unfortunately this is too often the case with old(er) NewGRFs (and was one of the reasons we setup the DevZone - and this project is of course invited to make use of it . A public repository there does make sure that the requirement to be able to produce a source code upon request can actually be fulfilled.)Purno wrote:Aside from this discussion about what a source code is and what not; They've given us everything they have.
All this said: I'm happy to see activity for this set. It's a very nice set and updating it to make use of newer features and capabilities and will certainly be a nice thing
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Re: US Set Development Thread
This argument is useless. There's nothing better available. No matter how you continue on arguing that it isn't a source code, they've given us everything they have!planetmaker wrote:That is no source code. In absence of those one can and has to - as last resort - use the de-compiled code which was presented, but which is also something everyone can obtain by means of grfcodec. Unfortunately this is too often the case with old(er) NewGRFs (and was one of the reasons we setup the DevZone - and this project is of course invited to make use of it )Purno wrote:Aside from this discussion about what a source code is and what not; They've given us everything they have.
All this said: I'm happy to see activity for this set. It's a very nice set and updating it to make use of newer features and capabilities and will certainly be a nice thing
It can't be possible that a GPL license (or any other) would mean someone has to provide the source code even if they've lost it (like a harddisk crash or well, that kinda stuff which happens).
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Re: US Set Development Thread
This is probably a discussion where different people probably have to agree upon disagreeing, however, they have not gives us everything they have, they have given us everything we had all along.Purno wrote:This argument is useless. There's nothing better available. No matter how you continue on arguing that it isn't a source code, they've given us everything they have!
Re: US Set Development Thread
I'm not quite sure I understand you correctly, but if I understand correctly you're saying the code they gave us contains nothing new as it doesn't contain any information the decoded GRF doesn't have?DJ Nekkid wrote:This is probably a discussion where different people probably have to agree upon disagreeing, however, they have not gives us everything they have, they have given us everything we had all along.
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- planetmaker
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Re: US Set Development Thread
Welcome to reality.
Last edited by planetmaker on 26 Jan 2011 17:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Set Development Thread
Is that decoded GRF any useful or are we better off coding from scratch again?
Contributor to the The 2cc Set and Dutch Trainset. Inventor of the Metro concept. Retired Graphics Artist.
Download TT | Latest TTDPatch | OpenTTD | OpenTTDCoop | BaNaNaS: OpenTTD content system | 2048² OTTD scenario of the Netherlands
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- planetmaker
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Re: US Set Development Thread
Scratch might indeed be easier and faster - depending on how much you want to change and add.
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Re: US Set Development Thread
Code: Select all
3030 * 14 02 00 2A 81 10 00 FF 01 2C FF 01 01 FF FF
(I´ve just typed it in. I didn´t copy it. It´s written in plain text, i.e. alphanumeric, no control codes etc. It´s human readable: "zero two-A eightyone ten zero ...")http://www.linfo.org/source_code.html wrote: Source code (also referred to as source or code) is the version of software as it is originally written (i.e., typed into a computer) by a human in plain text (i.e., human readable alphanumeric characters).
HTH
regards
Michael
- planetmaker
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Re: US Set Development Thread
No offence, but thank you for demonstrating how well it is human readable and understandable.michael blunck wrote:(I´ve just typed it in. I didn´t copy it. It´s written in plain text, i.e. alphanumeric, no control codes etc. It´s human readable: "zero two-A eightyone ten zero ...")Code: Select all
3030 * 14 02 00 2A 81 10 00 FF 01 2C FF 01 01 FF FF
And I guess we should stop this discussion here now before we're all kicked into the off-topic thread.
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Re: US Set Development Thread
Why do GRF authors almost do not use action 0C?andythenorth wrote:Not reallywallyweb wrote:The grf is compiled from the source, therefore decompilation produces the source.
If you decompile FIRS / HEQS / FISH / 2CC / ISR etc, you don't get the source, you get decompiled nfo which is almost entirely un-commented bytecode. That violates at least the spirit of the GPL
Many of the bigger sets are built with makefiles + templating systems. The source would include those tools and templates.
However if decompiled nfo is all there is...not much more to be said
Look at the ECS. The most commented GRFs. After decoding you can read every comment I do for myself, nothing is lost
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Re: US Set Development Thread
Well, I simply used the definition introduced by yourself which does not contain the condition to be "understandable."planetmaker wrote: No offence, but thank you for demonstrating how well it is human readable and understandable.
Apart from that, even something more remote from bytecode doesn´t automatically qualify to be "understandable":
Code: Select all
def(42) articulated(
addveh(_TENDER) if(1) // tender
ENDLIST else
)
regards
Michael
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