Recolouring for track tiles?

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michael blunck
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Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by michael blunck »

I´ve never understood the diverse efforts towards "new" tracks. Nevertheless, there are more "track sets" than Turbo train .grfs available at the time being.

IMO, tracks are one of the more unimportant parts of the game, mostly because they only add (negligible) graphical effects but don´t contribute to game play, in contrast to vehicle and building sets.

In addition to that, there are more problems with track sets:

- frankly, most of the new ones don´t look good. E.g., the CS rail set looks really weird with its Moiré effects,

- there are constant problems with bridges due to the way bridges are implemented in TTD. To overcome this, each track set has to include bridges as well, which in turn generates problems with foreign bridge sets,

- there are problems with some of the station sets. Some station tiles need special track ground sprites because of sorter problems and due to the way of the newgrf implementation, these sprites have to be included into the station set´s sprite blocks,

- there are copyright problems because in TTD "tracks" are incorporated into the landscape ground tiles. Changing those as well to avoid these problems would amount to a whole new landscape tile set.

IMO, there´s much too little benefit with regard to the large number of inherited problems.


A different approch would be to leave the original track tiles "untouched" but only recolour them. To illustrate the effect, here´s a screenshot with track(bed) colours shifted one index up (lighter). IMO, these would look already better in case the original ones are being felt too dark, and in addition, the original track sprites used inside the NewStations would blend well too (it´s more shady inside a station).
SCR15.png
SCR15.png (39.25 KiB) Viewed 6130 times
The needed recolouring could be done inside TTDPatch and in this way there would be no copyright problem. Just to mention it, it would be possible to map each of the original colours to a newly specified one. It doesn´t mean that you may only lighten or darken the original track tiles.

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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by FooBar »

I think a feature like this should be handled by a NewGRF action of some kind, similar to other kinds of NewGRF recolouring already available, where you can either use one of the default recolour sprites or write one your own.

Although this solves a big issue on railroads, it doesn't solve the same issue for road sets, where the very same problems you illustrated exist. The difference of road and rail sets is that rail sets are mostly similar to the original, but road sets are very distinct on which recolouring won't work...


And then I couldn't help noticing this:
michael blunck wrote:- there are copyright problems because in TTD "tracks" are incorporated into the landscape ground tiles.
Those copyright issues also apply to this I guess:
michael blunck wrote:Some station tiles need special track ground sprites ..., these sprites have to be included into the station set´s sprite blocks,
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by michael blunck »

FooBar wrote:I think a feature like this should be handled by a NewGRF action of some kind, similar to other kinds of NewGRF recolouring already available, where you can either use one of the default recolour sprites or write one your own.
Yes, o/c. That was meant by:
mb wrote:The needed recolouring could be done inside TTDPatch [...]
O/c, the needed recolour map would have to be supplied by a newgrf, either by supplying a pointer to an existing recolour map inside TTD or by supplying a custom recolour map.

FooBar wrote:Although this solves a big issue on railroads, it doesn't solve the same issue for road sets [...]
mb wrote:Recolouring for track tiles?
Those copyright issues also apply to [some station tiles] I guess
Yes, o/c. But this isn´t the place to discuss other copyright problems (which are arising too often in existing newgrf files) especially not when proposing a way to reduce copyright problems in a certain area. 8)

Other than that, you´re right and there should be a way to avoid at least the usage of original track tiles in newstations grfs.

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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by FooBar »

michael blunck wrote:
FooBar wrote:Although this solves a big issue on railroads, it doesn't solve the same issue for road sets [...]
mb wrote:Recolouring for track tiles?
What I mean to say here was that (mainly) the whole bridge issue also applies to road sets, not only track sets.
Where recolouring tracks solves the issue you pointed out for stations and bridges, recolouring roads doesn't make much sense.

Something that could be useful is splitting track/road from base tile, i.e. drawing a track-only sprite on top of a terrain-only sprite, i.e. the whole newroutes idea. That way bridges can use the track-only sprites. For stations, something has to be developed that a station grf can access the newroute sprites from another grf somehow.


But this isn´t the place to discuss other copyright problems
True. I'll remain silent on that for now. We've had enough copyright discussion around here ;)
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by Vikthor »

Wouldn't it be better to have Action1/2/3 support(even if a bit limited) specification for rails and roads, just like the one drafted here?
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by michael blunck »

Vikthor wrote:Wouldn't it be better to have Action1/2/3 support(even if a bit limited) specification for rails and roads, just like the one drafted here?
Such a full-fledged system is know by the term "newroutes" under the TTDPatch framework and has been already mentioned here by FooBar. Indeed my proposal aims to be part of the "newroutes" project.

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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by athanasios »

michael blunck wrote:The needed recolouring could be done inside TTDPatch and in this way there would be no copyright problem.
:shock: When I recolored some sprites everyone fell upon me to eat me. And you didn't say that then. I think you are on the gray zone here. Not that I care about such issues, but not to forget...
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by DaleStan »

There's a difference between distributing recolored sprites and telling TTD to draw already existent sprites differently.
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by athanasios »

The result is the same. And it is the result that counts.

Nevertheless the same could be done with my 32bpp conversion. Just with some extra code.
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by DaleStan »

No, it's not. There's a difference between distributing an ebook where you've converted everything to its photographic negative and distributing an ebook reader that displays everything as its photographic negative.
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by athanasios »

Wrong comparison. The result is a derivative work here. The original is taken and altered. It is not something extra or something new that replaces the existing one. I can do a bit more: Take an existing sprite from which I want to use a part only (e.g. windows of a building) and use transparent for the colors-parts I do not need and then copy/paste to a new one.

A negative of the sprite would be of no use in gaming terms. A negative of an ebook is nothing more than a custom font/background color to help e.g. a reader with reading difficulties. (If the ebook contains images it is of no use to a reader as you cannot comprehend the images any more.)

Your negative example applies to the whole ebook, whereas Michael's suggestion is selective-only the rails and with a specific color for color replacement. Here is the difference. If TTDPatch code just darkened all TTD sprites by adjusting the palette this would be acceptable, as it would do nothing more than what your monitor's brightness knob/button or graphics driver does.

Have a big gaming company take you to court for this and tell me if you have any chance to win.

Nevertheless practically it doesn't seem to be an issue. Still you failed to read correctly the 2nd part of my post. Some code to support any 8bpp palette in 32bpp, as it is done in other games' mods, and "my" recolored sprites are the same legal as "Michael's" ones.

1. Any coder around to write a patch (for OTTD of course)? :mrgreen:

2. Hmm, maybe I will change Michael's engines to pink this way. :lol:
just kidding hope you won't have a heart attack by reading this
Last edited by athanasios on 30 Oct 2008 02:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by DaleStan »

athanasios wrote:Your negative example applies to the whole ebook, whereas Michael's suggestion is selective-only the rails and with a specific color for color replacement.
And explain how this is different from what TTD already does when it changes the company color on sprites?
athanasios wrote:Have a big gaming company take you to court for this and tell me if you have any chance to win.
That's a strange mispelling of "... for absolutely anything and ...".
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by athanasios »

It was not intended from the original artist/coder of the game for those sprites.
Don't you understand that you alter their artwork?

So you win :bow: and now I will definitely change MB's DB engines to pink to fit with Toyland! :lol:
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by michael blunck »

athanasios wrote: It was not intended from the original artist/coder of the game for those sprites.
Don't you understand that you alter their artwork?
As often as you´re right about other things, you´re wrong here.

The artwork of the original artist isn´t "altered" by the aforementioned method in any way:

- the artwork here is the sprites, not their individual representation on the customer´s hardware. Which is already different (and unavoidable different) on the various computers. Just alter your monitor settings and you´ll see what I mean. Having a different colour adjustment, a different resolution, or any kind of distortion of your monitor can´t be a copyright infringement.

- a central concept of copyright law is the unauthorised distribution of the copyrighted work. Using the aforementioned method, no distribution of such a work, neither in altered nor unaltered form, would take place.

- distributing a computer program which changes the way graphical information of another computer program is represented, would affect the rights of the copyright holder of that computer program but not the rights of the copyright holder of that computer program´s graphical artwork, if any. However, by the specific way TTDPatch does this (by its own code directly on the customer´s computer, not by distributing altered code) I don´t see any copyright infringement with regards to the code´s copyright holder either.

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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by eis_os »

Actually I don't see no good way to apply recolor mappings on unknown rail sprites.


Actually newroutes of TTDPatch should solve the chicken-or-egg problem by defining bridges and the track style independently. My actual plan was: That the bridge will call the rail piece at the right moment. The problem I faced is that rewriting the bridge draw code is one of the most complex task on TTD(Patch). To avoid redistribution of TTD rails sprites, I already have some plans, but this would mean I have to write some image decompressing, manipulating and recompression code into TTDPatch. Nothing that I really want to write in any language...

Did I mentioned I have no time...

Here is the list switches altering bridge drawing as example that I have to design from scratch:
- custombridgeheads
- higherbridges
- trams
- erails
- buildonslopes
- PBS
- spritesorter (indirect)
- ...

Newroutes should solve this dependencies:
- Rail/Road crossings (Should provide in street rail tracks, like trams)
- Groundsprite/Rail pieces problem
- Bridge/Rail
- Tunnel/Rail
- catenary
- Sorting issues. -> Rail piece drawing can be called by other features (stations)

I do think designing a new game from scratch would be easier here...
Last edited by eis_os on 31 Oct 2008 08:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recolouring for track tiles?

Post by wallyweb »

eis_os wrote:I do think designing a new game from scratch would be easier here...
Will you need a marketing manager? :wink:
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