New Graphics - Blender ".blend" thread (Works In Progress)

[Lord Aro]

Again, very good

NOt sure about the large quantity of yellow however... (might make actual company colour a bit confusing)

[planetmaker]

Looks nice again indeed. But I think petern has quite a point on the proportions: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=984248#p984248
The proportions as rendered here would IMHO make excellent trains for the toyland climate, though

I'd like to pickup at this place the request for 32bpp graphics again. In particular I'd like the OpenGFX+ Trains to feature 32bpp graphics soonish and include that in the releases thereof. Of course that only works, if someone wants to draw the engines and wagons in 32bpp. I'd like zoom levels 1x, 2x and 4x.

While all engines are the same as in the base set ,thus it can use the same graphics (but see the proportion question above).

The wagons require possibly some new rendering as the wagon should actually stay the same for different cargos: it doesn't magically change looks when a different cargo is loaded. The different wagons it currently has are:
- early open bulk wagon with different graphics for different cargos. (pre 1970)
- new open bulk wagon with different graphics for different cargos. (post 1970)
- flatbed wagon with container, barrels, palettes of bricks and alike. Container logo may vary by cargo.
- stake wagon with wood, steel, lumber,...
- vehicle wagon with tractors, vehicles, engineering supplies (vehicle parts)
- livestock wagon
- closed piece goods wagon.
- closed refrigerator wagon
- tanker wagon
- cement tanker
- passenger wagons with liveries fit to their respective engine head (Manley-Morel, Dash, IC 125, TurboTrain)
- mail wagon, also with liveries for the MU engines
- valuables wagon, also with liveries for the MU engines.

As I'm not too sure about the licenses of graphics posted here, it'd be very nice, if interested parties could please post sprites in the OpenGFX+ Trains thread or in its issue tracker.

Similarily I'm interested in 32bpp versions of landscape sprites in all zoom levels 1x, 2x and 4x. Note that I consider the non-flat grass as is currently used buggy. Landscape sprites need to have no height, otherwise it glitches. Sprite contributions there I'd welcome also very much, again either in the development thread or the issue tracker. This NewGRF includes also replacements for rails and roads and bridges as they need to match the landscape and tracks.

Note that the same also applies for OpenGFX+Road Vehicles, OpenGFX+ Airports, OpenGFX+ Industries and possibly for houses, ships and aircraft, too, provided there's sufficient interest and available sprites; a new thread in the NewGRF development section could be created for them in order to collect the sprites. Mind a consistent light direction, the sun is around 4:30 ... 5:00 pm.

It would be very welcome from my POV if someone interested maybe could also look through existing sprites for the suitable ones and suggest them in the aforementioned places. IMHO starting with this as NewGRF is a great way as it allows to get parts done completely and independently and get it into the game quicker. Once we have all these NewGRFs done we've nearly completed the base set and can make that a complete one

[Xotic750]

Not sure what to do about the scale. If I reduce the height of the vehicles then they just look like they have been squashed and all the proportions just look nasty and it doesn't fit with the graphics that Ben Robbins and others created, and those were the proportions that I based my models on (same height, width and length).

As far as licenses go, I released my models under GPLv2 as I believe this was what was needed for OpenTTD but basically anyone is welcome to do as they please with them.

[Hyronymus]

Not sure what to do about the scale. If I reduce the height of the vehicles then they just look like they have been squashed and all the proportions just look nasty and it doesn't fit with the graphics that Ben Robbins and others created, and those were the proportions that I based my models on (same height, width and length).

As far as licenses go, I released my models under GPLv2 as I believe this was what was needed for OpenTTD but basically anyone is welcome to do as they please with them.

And what if you create your own proportions, what is the result then? Next to problematic to the game it can be interesting to see how problematic and perhaps find a set of other proportions.

As I said in the other topic abut scale it strikes me that proper proportions are attainable in pixelart and unattainable in 3D-rendered art.

[Xotic750]

The limiting factor I believe is the size of the tiles and vehicle length of a ½ tile once you begin to zoom in 2x and 4x. Zooming out is not a problem as you don't notice the "realism" of the models any more. You could change the scale of the model to make something look more "real" when zoomed in but then it looks ridiculous when you zoom out. I would say that you are correct in that "proper proportions are attainable in pixelart and unattainable in 3D-rendered art"

[Xotic750]

Ok, here are my updated (v2.0) SH125 and UU37, they have been slightly resized to give a better perception of proportion in both normal and extra zoom graphics. As a result, they look slightly under sized in extra zoom and slightly over sized in normal but it's the best I can get with a "1 size fits all" project. I am also releasing my replacement for the SH30 and SH40. All sources are available from the OpenTTD 32bit graphics development file repository and you are free to do with them as you please.

[Xotic750]

And here is a screenshot of all the current 32bpp extra zoom graphics trains.

[Hyronymus]

And here is a screenshot of all the current 32bpp extra zoom graphics trains.

Nice but I keep being baffled by the proportions, only the Kirby Paul thingie strikes me as proportional. The Kirby Paul (Collet Pannier) is 9,50m long, the SH125 (Class 431) is 17,79m long.

But next to that silliness brought on by OpenTTD I have to say you did a great job .

[Xotic750]

Thanks, I have 2 more coming soon (T.I.M. and Asia Star), once I get the materials correct

½ a tile in OTTD (what all trains and wagons adhere to) is the equivalent of approx. 12.5 meters in real life, so the Kirby Paul is 9.5m in real life and 12.5m in game . Similar for the other models, so the SH125 is 17.79m in real life and 12.5m in game. Other than OTTD changing the tile system, we will always have 32bpp Extra Zoom graphics that look "unrealistic" or "out of correct proportion". Personally I don't mind that the proportions are not perfectly realistic, it wouldn't be OTTD if they were

What I'm really looking forward to is the trunk being able to read the graphics and perform the colour masking like the patch does (the colour masks are really strange in the trunk, it doesn't seem to blend them correctly over the sprites)

[peter1138]

Yes, TTD's proportions are not realistic, however the 32bpp-ez vehicle sprites are not drawn to TTD proportions; for one, they are way too tall. This is why look so odd compared to TTD sprites.

This 25m tile scale is an arbitrary interpretation, don't get fixed on it. Tile scale varies massively depending on what is being measured.

P.S. The T.I.M. should be sort of similar to a first generation T.G.V.

[planetmaker]

And here is a screenshot of all the current 32bpp extra zoom graphics trains.

Again, it looks very nice. But IMHO this very screenshot shows already very well why all these train engines and wagons have been drawn too high - as petern illustrated earlier: Many engines and wagons are so high that the catenary is below their roof. Similar issues will show with tunnels or below bridges. Thus I strongly suggest to revise the proportions of all these vehicles and choose to draw them less high in the same proportions as TTD already uses.

[Xotic750]

It's pretty easy for me to rescale and re-render the work that I have done but I don't have access to all the older sprite sources (either missing or they are in 3DS Max format and I can't run 3DS under Linux). I am also guessing that all the train line tiles would need to be redone as I don't think that these are correct if you rescale the vehicles (and I've never seen any sources to these). I'd happily help where I can, of course it would all need to be in Blender.

The T.I.M. is more square than the Asia Star model, but I guess it needs to be even more squared off for the very very early TGVs

[planetmaker]

It's pretty easy for me to rescale(...)

Not that it is not about a _uniformly_ different scale. It's the height which is problematic. I don't see immediately where a change in height means to change anything on the ground tiles (their size is fixed) as is the length of the train vehicles (half a tile). The only thing which could warrant a need to revisit the track tiles, if the width of the vehicles is also changed. But... I don't see an immediate need there (as also illustrated in that very comparison petern posted).

[Xotic750]

I can certainly try to get them to look right and fit the current tiles, but I think if you reduce only the height then things are going to look very strange ("squashed"). I think the width will have to adjusted to to keep a sensible proportion but I can certainly give it a try.

I don't suppose that anyone has the Blender units that should be used to match the original graphics, I know that the length is 6.25 blender units but haven't seen anything with regard to width and height?

[peter1138]

About that sprite scale/size thing:

[Zephyris]

Its more an offset thing... the 8bpp graphics are running 2px below the rails. The 32bpp graphics themselves are probably only 1px taller.

[peter1138]

Same set up with OpenGFX, which doesn't suffer from the images being "2px below the rails":

[maquinista]

I recommend You to test the graphics with current Ben Robbins graphics (trains and ground tiles with tracks).

IMHO, the best way to test a locomotive is to test it between two mail or passenger coaches.

[Zephyris]

I agree with maquinista, anyway I think the bigger issue is the CC algorithm... Is there any chance of including my CC algorithm from the 32bpp extra zoom levels branch to fix this?

[GeekToo]

...I think the bigger issue is the CC algorithm... Is there any chance of including my CC algorithm from the 32bpp extra zoom levels branch to fix this?

+1


First, ridiculous amount of kudos for Peter for putting the extra-zooms in trunk I think I am entitled to say that I really know how much effort you must have put into it.

But, Zephyris is right, please use some kind of blending algorithm for 32bpp CC, and some kind of CC pallette index retreiver for 8bpp CC. Most graphics (if not all) that I know that were created for 32bpp, only use one colour for CC mask. That would really improve graphics quality (and after that, I will nag about using some kind of scale2x or other algorithm for showing extra zooms, iso duplicating pixels, but that is for later, first CC please).