Lumber Mill 1.0 (2008-11-20)

[Ammler]

How about a snowy version of that little gem?

Snowy version would also rock for arctic, if someone would make the graphics for. It could be done, I guess.

Greets
Ammler

[wallyweb]

Snowy version would also rock for arctic, if someone would make the graphics for. It could be done, I guess.

OOps! Sorry Ammler, I forgot you are not an artist as well
But I am glad that you are willing to look at coding it should an artist step forward.

[michael blunck]

Snowy version would also rock for arctic, if someone would make the graphics for. It could be done, I guess.

You didn´t understand my post.

regards
Michael

[This is my name]

Can this be in GRF Crawler?

[PhilSophus]

I've posted a suggestion how to implement advanced cutting control by NewGRFs in OpenTTD here.

Since this contains a suggestion to change the interpretation of callback 3B result and thus the NewGRF Specification, this post might be interesting for TTDPatch, too and I would be grateful for comments from TTDPatch people and especially the NewGRF gurus .

[michael blunck]

I've posted a suggestion how to implement advanced cutting control by NewGRFs in OpenTTD [...]

Without going into detail (I´ve yet to read your proposal ...), let me point out that in temperate and artic climate the behaviour of the sawmill is different from the tropical lumber mill. In those two climates we have the "forest" industry supplying "wood" which has to be transported to those sawmills.

I.e., no "cutting control" needed.

regards
Michael

[wallyweb]

I've posted a suggestion how to implement advanced cutting control by NewGRFs in OpenTTD [...]

Without going into detail (I´ve yet to read your proposal ...), let me point out that in temperate and artic climate the behaviour of the sawmill is different from the tropical lumber mill. In those two climates we have the "forest" industry supplying "wood" which has to be transported to those sawmills.

I.e., no "cutting control" needed.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the tropic lumbermill would be a replacement for the Temperate/Arctic forests would it not? I assume that this new code would transfer the tree cutting privileges to trees from forests, much as it does in Tropic and similar to what George's sawmill does when it does not receive wood.

[PhilSophus]

Without going into detail (I´ve yet to read your proposal ...), let me point out that in temperate and artic climate the behaviour of the sawmill is different from the tropical lumber mill. In those two climates we have the "forest" industry supplying "wood" which has to be transported to those sawmills.

I.e., no "cutting control" needed.

Then let me point out a bit clearer, what my suggestion is intended for: It's for NewGRF industries that have the "cuts trees" special flag (bit 1 of feature 1A) set. I'm aware that the default industries in temperate (and arctic) don't cut trees, but that's just what this NewGRF here is supposed to "fix", by providing the tropical lumber mill that does.

[michael blunck]

[advanced lumber cutting]

[...] in temperate and artic climate the behaviour of the sawmill is different from the tropical lumber mill. In those two climates we have the "forest" industry supplying "wood" which has to be transported to those sawmills.

I.e., no "cutting control" needed.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the tropic lumbermill would be a replacement for the Temperate/Arctic forests would it not? I assume that this new code would transfer the tree cutting privileges to trees from forests, much as it does in Tropic and similar to what George's sawmill does when it does not receive wood.

Why should the tropical lumber mill going to be a replacement for the temperate/arctic one? The biggest advantage of good ol´ TTD is variety. That´s why CS did create more than one climate with more than one set of industries (among many other things). But o/c, there are always people who like to change anything because they simply like change, regardless whether it´ll be useful or, in this case, add variety to the game.

Besides from variety, there´s also a fundamental difference between lumber industries in tropical and temperate which is reflected in the game. In temperate, we mostly have "cultivated forests", something that is represented by TTD´s "forest industry", but in tropic we have "jungles", and o/c, the way of management is different. I.e., IMO, it would be somewhat wrong to have a sawmill in temperate cutting landscape trees, rather than those of a "forest industry".

That may be different in arctic, though.

O/c, we could design a better "forest industry" by use of newindustries (you mentioned "George´s sawmill"). And o/c, we cut provide it with an "advanced cutting" method, and, most important, larger than the existing one.

E.g., what I always wanted to be developed is a generalisation of the "field planting" mechanism in newindustries. Then we couldn´t only have other land-bound agricultural "industries" than "farms" but more variety, like vineyards, rice farming, and novel forestry, all at the same time.

This would be really exciting. In comparison to only slightly modifying the tropical lumber mill or messing around with the original temperate industries, that is.

OTOH, I don´t think that such a new feature (an additional method of tree cutting) would do any harm, in places where it belongs. In fact, it could be incorporated into the existing newindustries sets. You know, I have reservations for even more small standalone .grfs, interfering with each and everything.

regards
Michael

[wallyweb]

[advanced lumber cutting] ...

Indeed I agree with much of what you say. It was CS' concept that attracted me to the game in the first place. However, I then discovered the Patch which greatly extended the possibilities. Indeed, your Arctic Set and your Alpine adaptation were very entertaining. But then DanMack launched the Canadian Set which brought everything home to me. The Canadian reality is that its forest industry, although often plantation based, still largely consists of harvesting in the wild. CS' tropic sawmill is more true to the Canadian reality than his Temperate/Arctic presentation. OzTransLtd's ingenious coding which allowed for a parameter to blend some of the Arctic Industries into Temperate without the need of a separate Industry set created an even more Canadian experience. Seasonal variations was the icing on the cake. And now PhilSophus gives us his adaptation! ... I am a very happy TTDX player indeed.

These single grf's seem to lay the groundwork for larger and better things. I agree that one does not want to use all of them at once, but to have them all available in order to selectively craft that certain scenario is nothing less than nirvana.

Keep up the good work PhilSophus. You have added to the pleasure of my game.

[michael blunck]

Indeed I agree with much of what you say.

Hehe.

[...] The Canadian reality is that its forest industry, although often plantation based, still largely consists of harvesting in the wild.

That´s why I wrote

That may be different in arctic, though.

However, in most European countries (given that the connection "temperate" == "European" holds) there´s not much "harvesting in the wild". Most parts of Europe are densely inhabited and forests are generally managed.

That´s why I like CS´s representation of forests as an "industry" (in temperate), rather than getting lumber for sawmills from "the neighbourhood", e.g. in cities, possibly from your own garden.

O/c, the graphical representation of that "forest industry" is far from being perfect. As already pointed out, it would be much more interesting to have "forests" similar like farm fields are, i.e. much larger and dynamically harvested (with Phil´s tree cutting algorithm enhancement).

regards
Michael

[Ammler]

There is another reason, why I added the Lumber Mill "code" to temperate and arctic: The whole map will be full of trees, after playing around 200 years. This GRF should help to keep some [de]Lichtungen[/de]. (Birds and other animals will thank you.)

(Edit: if you remove the trees from a MP map, you can solve around 20% of the whole mapsize. That speeds up the joining for clients.

Greets
Ammler

[wallyweb]

... it would be much more interesting to have "forests" similar like farm fields are, i.e. much larger and dynamically harvested (with Phil´s tree cutting algorithm enhancement).

But why reinvent the wheel? TTDX already gives us new growth, and with the tree planting tool, this can be accelerated where needed (At a reasonable cost of course).

[frosch]

There is another reason, why I added the Lumber Mill "code" to temperate and arctic: The whole map will be full of trees, after playing around 200 years. This GRF should help to keep some [de]Lichtungen[/de]. (Birds and other animals will thank you.)

This job is usually done by grazing sheep.

[TrueTenacity]

Hi there

What are the correct Param settings to get this to work?

I've added it to my game and i am now sitting with sawmills and lumber mills occupying the same space

Sawmill (448) Lumber mill (0) and no forests...

[Ammler]

What are the correct Param settings to get this to work?

No params=default

I've added it to my game and i am now sitting with sawmills and lumber mills occupying the same space

Sawmill (448) Lumber mill (0) and no forests...

lumber mill produces wood, which then could be used by sawmill, like the forests

The params should be self explaining and are described in the description

Greets
Ammler

[Muzzly]

Why at the beginning of game there is no Lumber Mill ?
Shall I fund it myself or will it appear after 200 years ?

Because forest is also not available, it is a bit strange situation, no wood in game.

[Ammler]

Param0: enable LumberMill (def: 1)
Param1: change Forest to cut trees like Lumber Mill (def: 0)
Param2: disable Forest (or enable in Tropic) (def: 1)

As you see, param2 does disable Forest per default and yes, the lumber mill is a manual industry, it is a "plain" copy of the tropic lumber mill. Nothing more.

Any suggestions are welcome, you might also try the sepcial version with the openttd patch.

Greets
Ammler

[SM9T8]

This'll be really useful, I'd forgotten it existed. If you don't mind I may have a go at drawing some temperate graphics for it too.

I know its called a Lumber Mill in the original game but its actually a Logging Camp. A Lumber Mill is just another term for a Sawmill.

[Ammler]

that might "force" me to convert the nfo to NML

I am looking forward