FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[Jon Harald Søby]

I have a question,

Would it be possible to divide the industries chains, like a option in settings for what chains are in game?

Or in other words, have less types of industries when chosen to.

I understand that there those who love many many types of Industries in their games, but I find the number of them way to confusing for me.


I also understand that this request is probably a very low priority, but I hope someday it's possible.


Thank you.

Yeah, according to this (and somewhere else I read, but can't remember; probably somewhere in this thread), the plan is to introduce different "economies" that offer different industries and different cargo ratings for each. However, they haven't been implemented yet, but the plan is to do so some time in the future.

[wallyweb]

This makes me think an export/import "industry" like the Railroad Tycoon port could be useful.

This is pretty much a definite. Just need to figure out the details.

Sort of like a Free Trade Zone where cargoes are imported and exported duty free?

The way I understand the concept is that there would be a group of pre-packaged economies from which to select?

Perhaps there is a way to offer the player a group of parameters which when combined would provide an economy customized to the player's liking?

[Digitalfox]

Perhaps there is a way to offer the player a group of parameters which when combined would provide an economy customized to the player's liking?

Yeah, I guess I'm mostly fond of that idea.

But again, I do understand that for many years a lot of people wanted to have lot's of industry's and with this kind of quality (Not only do they look great, but the amount of details, like production rate, supply chain, etc...).

I just find it way complex for my games. So again, I know it's a very low priority request, FIRS isn't even probably created for my type of player, but maybe one day I hope some parameters could be added

[andythenorth]

Or in other words, have less types of industries when chosen to.

Economies. It's a parameter setting. Work in progress.

Try the 0.8.0 test release (at your own risk)
http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/rel ... .0-test-1/
(get the tar.zip)

Contents of 'basic' economy listed here: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/rel ... t_docs.txt

[NekoMaster]

Hmm, what about a petro-chemical econemy?

BTW, is it possible for new industries to be implimented so long as the others are disabled? Like say, disabling one industry so that something like Oil sands can be implimented for a modern petro-chemical econemy?

[andythenorth]

BTW, is it possible for new industries to be implimented so long as the others are disabled?

Yes, within certain limits this can be done.

[NekoMaster]

BTW, is it possible for new industries to be implimented so long as the others are disabled?

Yes, within certain limits this can be done.

Well that would be nice if you could add other industries in different econemies or different cargos.

It would also be kinda nice if we got a Power production econemy, where you send coal, oil, or Fuel rods/pellets to a power station, adn then send the power to cities (perhaps a Substation town industry that excepts power (say by the KiloWatt?))

I know that nuclear power has been brought up and shot down before, but I think done a certain way nuclear power could be simulated in a fun but semi realistic way in OpenTTD.

Eg.

Send crap loads of Uranium Ore to a enrichment plant where its turned into Yellow Cake, which can then be processed at another plant into Fuel Rods which offer high value but low production. The chain would start out with lots of low value bulk ore, which is then enriched into mid value yellow cake (but produced at a lower rate then ore), which is then turned into a small amount of Fuel rods which fetch a high price but the out put would be low enough that you'd probably want to use a truck for it.

Urainium Mine >Train/Truck> Enrichment Facility >Train/Truck> Processing Plant >Special/Armored Truck> Nuclear power plant.

Also, I know that In real life nuclear power plants are born and die with the same fuel rods they had from day one, but in OpenTTD, it would be nice if say, you send a small shipment of rods to a nuke plant and it uses them up over time, and hopefully by the time the next shipment of fuel rods come in the plant will be demanding some more fuel.

Only problem I can see with Power production is we'd need a Nutrack like PIPE to act like power lines, and using indicators like the arrows in PIPE to as vehicles. Though it could probably be something thats enabled and disabled with the econemy so that you dont get useless power lines with the other econemies.

[Supercheese]

I wrote a power line/power transport grf a while ago, but the gameplay was tremendously boring, so I stopped working on it. Just build a "power line" vehicle, send it away and collect money, zzzzzzzzzz

I guess if I polished it up a little I could release it, but another reason I stopped working on it was it would be incompatible with FIRS...

[oberhümer]

Some posts about economies: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 30#p909430
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 05#p853105
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 05#p848105

[NekoMaster]

I wrote a power line/power transport grf a while ago, but the gameplay was tremendously boring, so I stopped working on it. Just build a "power line" vehicle, send it away and collect money, zzzzzzzzzz

I guess if I polished it up a little I could release it, but another reason I stopped working on it was it would be incompatible with FIRS...

I wouldnt mind checking it out if you released it

[Supercheese]

I wrote a power line/power transport grf a while ago, but the gameplay was tremendously boring, so I stopped working on it. Just build a "power line" vehicle, send it away and collect money, zzzzzzzzzz
I guess if I polished it up a little I could release it, but another reason I stopped working on it was it would be incompatible with FIRS...

I wouldnt mind checking it out if you released it

Well, this is a topic for another thread: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=63356

[Coxx]

...
I just find it way complex for my games. So again, I know it's a very low priority request, FIRS isn't even probably created for my type of player, but maybe one day I hope some parameters could be added

Have a look at OTTD+ industries, there you can have (almost) all standard cargos and industries you want via parameter (i.e. have paper in temperate)

This makes me think an export/import "industry" like the Railroad Tycoon port could be useful.

This is pretty much a definite. Just need to figure out the details.

Sort of like a Free Trade Zone where cargoes are imported and exported duty free?

The way I understand the concept is that there would be a group of pre-packaged economies from which to select?

Perhaps there is a way to offer the player a group of parameters which when combined would provide an economy customized to the player's liking?

I´d rather opt for a number of reasonable presets and "hide" the more advanced settings somewhere else. There is this neat little BaseCostMod - I wonder who actually uses it to full effect. It´s difficult to say beforehand what effect on gameplay certain settings will have and it easily gets screwed up. Import/export - industry is also probably best preset for a certain economical setting.

Some posts about economies: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 30#p909430
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 05#p853105
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 05#p848105

Anyone interested in developing a schema for "Tropical Island"?
Some questions to begin with:
Q: What about implementation of new cargos and industries (limits)?
Q: How could the "domestic" demand (food, alcohol, etc.) be restricted to force export?
Q: Are raw resources like ores or oil limited? What about the lumber mill in rainforrests (drop in production)?
Q: Could introduction dates of industries be altered and industries prevented from being build automatically?
and
Q: What is the latest in change of graphics for fields (different kinds of fields)?
Q: Will there be something like seasonal production at some point?

[planetmaker]

Some questions to begin with:
Q: What about implementation of new cargos and industries (limits)?
Q: How could the "domestic" demand (food, alcohol, etc.) be restricted to force export?
Q: Are raw resources like ores or oil limited? What about the lumber mill in rainforrests (drop in production)?
Q: Could introduction dates of industries be altered and industries prevented from being build automatically?
and
Q: What is the latest in change of graphics for fields (different kinds of fields)?
Q: Will there be something like seasonal production at some point?

From what I gather from discussions with andy:
- There's still one or two cargo slots free and a few industry slots. That's on purpose to allow for add-ons.
- Raw ressources are not limited. The original lumber mill indeed does have a limit in the sense as it requires trees to cut. But you can plant them. FIRS doesn't use this mechanism, though.
- Industry introduction dates and automatic building can be altered.
- Changing fields is feasible. But problematic. There's only the default fields which you can replace. You can't define additional looks.
- Seasonal production is feasible but unwanted for gameplay reasons: Game years are too short and you'll have a hell of a trouble to make nice networks with such burst-like behaviour of supply and demand.

[Coxx]

...
- There's still one or two cargo slots free and a few industry slots. That's on purpose to allow for add-ons.

Thanks for clarification.
I don´t really mean to use up those precious empty slots, rather a kind of "namespace" for a specific economy where to replace or alter certain cargos and/or industries - is that possible?

- Raw ressources are not limited. The original lumber mill indeed does have a limit in the sense as it requires trees to cut. But you can plant them. FIRS doesn't use this mechanism, though ... .

That is exactly what I had in mind: a FIRS lumbermill with that behaviour.

[YNM]

Probably less mentioned, but I have know this since a loong time (and so likely other people) : The steel mill in original TTD (and so TTDPatch) have some tiles that accept passenger cargo (1/8 or somewhat like that) - this isn't showed in the industry menu, but this allowed people to transport passenger if they get them near and aplenty.

My ideas : Instead of showing the cargo (electricity) in the industry menu, make it something like this : Make two (or more) tiles that accept the cargo at fractional rate, and don't appear them in the industry menu. Im not sure at all does this works for OpenTTD, but I believe its doable, likely - and so allowing every single industry to accept electricity !

[Coxx]

Probably less mentioned ... : The steel mill in original TTD (and so TTDPatch) have some tiles that accept passenger cargo (1/8 or somewhat like that) - this isn't showed in the industry menu, but this allowed people to transport passenger if they get them near and aplenty.

Wasn´t there also a tile on the ECS factory that accepted coal?
Hmm ... does that mean, that an industry, apart from the up to three cargos it can process, could also accept several other cargos (tile based but not processing)?
Could these tiles also produce cargo?

[Eddi]

there are two separate things here, "industries" and "industry tiles" that each have their own function.

an "industry tile" can define its accepted cargos independently of what the "industry" says it accepts. ECS uses this to disable accepting some cargos, e.g. power stations don't accept oil until ~1950. however, the additional cargos cannot be detected by the industry in any way, so it cannot influence production.

[NekoMaster]

I have a bit of a problem to report here with the latest nightly (r3222), it and NARS 2.03 don't like to work with each other (most of the diesel locomotives don't appear in the purchase list, aside from a few non-regearable locomotives)...

This sucks because I had such a nice game going and now I have to restart

[planetmaker]

I have a bit of a problem to report here with the latest nightly (r3222), it and NARS 2.03 don't like to work with each other (most of the diesel locomotives don't appear in the purchase list, aside from a few non-regearable locomotives)...

This sucks because I had such a nice game going and now I have to restart

That is only a problem, if the issue exists also for newly created games...
Changing newgrfs mid-flight and ignoring the big red warning message that changing newgrfs mid-flight is not supported can lead to a plethora of bugs. Please disable both, scenario and newgrf developer tools.

[andythenorth]

@neko: can't reproduce that - see attached screenie

If you changed grfs on a running game, all bets are off. However if you can reproduce reliably, post a save with openttd version info etc. I changed the way FIRS cargos are defined, which may have broken regearing cargo for NARS (but really shouldn't), which might break NARS for unexpected reasons (but really shouldn't).

Ignore that my screenie says 3220M for the rev, it's same code as r3222.