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Posted: **10 Jan 2005 09:59**

krtaylor wrote:George, can I check to see if we are seeing the same thing?
In the game I sent you, when I'm playing it here, in 1971 a Mercedes LP1623 carrying water has an annual running cost of $44,284.

It is $5422 here

krtaylor wrote:Is that what the game charges when you're playing it, in that year?

It does not crash. What made you to think so?

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 10:21**

Hi George!

I finally found the drawings for the Fiat buses. I'll post them in a .zip file here.

They include the Turin version of the 421 AL, which is the same as the one in my pictures with the only exception of the windows displacement (personally, I prefer the one in the pics), and both versions of the Inbus U210, the simple one and the articulated one. Front and rear views of the U210 are only included in the articulated drawing, since there's no difference between the two.
I also included the S210, suburban version of the articulated Inbus (they removed a door and added some seats).

I found some data about the 421 too. Its max speed was 68, and it was built until 1983. 18 years of age could be ok anyway.

Ask me if you need any additional info!

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 10:35**

George:
If you're interested in the 200 series Ikarus, I can give you a link, with most of the members. Then you can choose the ones you like enough to be included:

http://busztipusok.freeweb.hu/tip2.htm

The links will lead you to similar pages, that I've shown you earlier, with schematics of each type.
Each type has links under "KÉPEK", that contain photos of that particular type.

I'd suggest including the 250 too, it's a very common type, with the 260. Did you finally decide against the 293?

Curiosities: 261/281 are designed for left-hand drive.
The 286 was exported to America.
BTW did you know, that the 200 series is the single most produced series in the whole world, with 250000 pieces produced?

Szappy

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 14:27**

George wrote:
krtaylor wrote:George, can I check to see if we are seeing the same thing?
In the game I sent you, when I'm playing it here, in 1971 a Mercedes LP1623 carrying water has an annual running cost of $44,284.
It is $5422 here

OK, so, we see for some reason I am being over charged on the maintenance. Now we need to find out why.

George wrote:
krtaylor wrote:Is that what the game charges when you're playing it, in that year?
It does not crash. What made you to think so?

Nothing crashes, I never said it did. The game plays just fine. I'm just being charged too much for RV maintenance, is all.

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 15:05**

krtaylor wrote:
George wrote:
krtaylor wrote:George, can I check to see if we are seeing the same thing?
In the game I sent you, when I'm playing it here, in 1971 a Mercedes LP1623 carrying water has an annual running cost of $44,284.
It is $5422 here
OK, so, we see for some reason I am being over charged on the maintenance. Now we need to find out why.

The prices can also be different if you have a different rate of inflation (i.e. interest rate in the difficulty settings). It may well make a factor of ten difference by 1971.

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 16:45**

Oh, yes, certainly, but isn't that saved in a savegame? I sent my savegame to George, and he was looking at exactly the same actual game, but seeing a wildly different maintenance cost. The interest rate here is 3%, BTW, what is it in the game at your end, George?

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 16:50**

You're right, it should be saved in the game. Have you tried disabling all other grf sets in the GRF status window? Maybe another grf is interfering...

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 18:00**

That was the original thought. I haven't actually tried it, but I sent my GRF file list to George and he says they are all OK with him. First I wanted to prove that there is in fact a real problem. Now that we've done that, I'll do the one-at-a-time GRF test.

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 18:24**

Szappy wrote:If you're interested in the 200 series Ikarus,

It was your suggestion. But I liked it

Szappy wrote:I can give you a link, with most of the members. Then you can choose the ones you like enough to be included:
http://busztipusok.freeweb.hu/tip2.htm
The links will lead you to similar pages, that I've shown you earlier, with schematics of each type.
Each type has links under "KÉPEK", that contain photos of that particular type.

A very good pages. They are enough to draw vehicles but it is hard to indentify characteristics because there no english versions. I'd like to ask you too find and translate me the missing charcateristics, Ok?

Szappy wrote:I'd suggest including the 250 too, it's a very common type, with the 260.

It is a coach bus? I'd prefer to separate it from city buses. There are not enough callbacks now to make it useful

Szappy wrote:Did you finally decide against the 293?

No. What made you to think so? I'm waiting for its info. There is also no info for it on that page.

Szappy wrote:Curiosities: 261/281 are designed for left-hand drive.

Not now. May be in the future

Szappy wrote:The 286 was exported to America.

And what was the difference?

Szappy wrote:BTW did you know, that the 200 series is the single most produced series in the whole world, with 250000 pieces produced?

It was mentioned already.

On some of the pictures doors consit of 2 parts and on some they consist of 4 parts. Are this different models or it depends on the year of production? I think to draw these different doors, but I'd like to know dependences.

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 18:24**

Snail wrote:I finally found the drawings for the Fiat buses. I'll post them in a .zip file here.

Good, that is what I need, I shall draw these buses

Snail wrote:They include the Turin version of the 421 AL, which is the same as the one in my pictures with the only exception of the windows displacement (personally, I prefer the one in the pics),

You mean with wide windows? Ok, Ill draw them

Snail wrote:and both versions of the Inbus U210, the simple one and the articulated one. Front and rear views of the U210 are only included in the articulated drawing, since there's no difference between the two.
I also included the S210, suburban version of the articulated Inbus (they removed a door and added some seats).

Wonderfull. I'll add it too, and in the future, when ne callbacks will be available, I'll add more different characteristics.

Snail wrote:I found some data about the 421 too. Its max speed was 68, and it was built until 1983. 18 years of age could be ok anyway. Ask me if you need any additional info!

Ok. I'll ask you if I miss some info.

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 18:49**

Snail wrote:

I finally found the drawings for the Fiat buses. I'll post them in a .zip file here.
Good, that is what I need, I shall draw these buses

Great! Glad you like them

Snail wrote:

They include the Turin version of the 421 AL, which is the same as the one in my pictures with the only exception of the windows displacement (personally, I prefer the one in the pics),
You mean with wide windows? Ok, Ill draw them

Actually, I was referring to the model in the pictures I sent you some days ago, ie the one with narrower windows and double rear window. But you could draw both variants, if that's possible and if it's not too much work for you, and let both be available using the "refit" feature... how does that sound? After all, it'd be just a different windows design.

If that's not possible, the narrower window design would do the trick, as it was more popular in many cities over here. The drawing I sent you refers strictly to the model used in Turin.

I also think I saw some buses of yours seem to have kind of "default" colors, like the yellow tone which sometimes appears on the earlier Mercedes bus (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no expert). If adding such a "default" color is possible, it'd be cool if some of the 421's appeared light green until the late Seventies and orange later, since that model was painted in those colors almost everywhere. Or maybe a mixture of those and the company colors.
The same goes for the Inbus, except that its color should be orange at all times, being a later bus. This only applies to urban variants though.

Besides, I'm starting to think the Inbus' articulated version had a different name than U210. I'll try to look for the actual name and I'll tell you.

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 19:16**

krtaylor wrote:Oh, yes, certainly, but isn't that saved in a savegame? I sent my savegame to George, and he was looking at exactly the same actual game, but seeing a wildly different maintenance cost. The interest rate here is 3%, BTW, what is it in the game at your end, George?

3%

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 19:16**

Patchman wrote:
krtaylor wrote:
George wrote:It is $5422 here
OK, so, we see for some reason I am being over charged on the maintenance. Now we need to find out why.
The prices can also be different if you have a different rate of inflation (i.e. interest rate in the difficulty settings). It may well make a factor of ten difference by 1971.

But not in the same save. The reason is GRFs. I'm sure. But what GRFs? Tropic set makes this effect for me. But I didn't find actions D or usage of feature 08 for action 0 in tropic set. But for me activating of tropic set makes the same result. Could you look for it closer?

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 19:17**

krtaylor wrote:
George wrote:
krtaylor wrote:George, can I check to see if we are seeing the same thing? In the game I sent you, when I'm playing it here, in 1971 a Mercedes LP1623 carrying water has an annual running cost of $44,284.
It is $5422 here
OK, so, we see for some reason I am being over charged on the maintenance. Now we need to find out why.

Code: Select all

	Properties for road vehicles
	09	B	Running cost factor
	0A	D	Running cost base

I change 09 but do not 0A. Maybe some of your grfs affects Running cost base?

2Josef: what are default values for prop 0A for RVs?

krtaylor wrote:
George wrote:
krtaylor wrote:Is that what the game charges when you're playing it, in that year?
It does not crash. What made you to think so?
Nothing crashes, I never said it did. The game plays just fine. I'm just being charged too much for RV maintenance, is all.

I don't know why this suggestion came to my mind

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 20:29**

George wrote:
krtaylor wrote:
George wrote:It is $5422 here
OK, so, we see for some reason I am being over charged on the maintenance. Now we need to find out why.
Code: Select all
	Properties for road vehicles
	09	B	Running cost factor
	0A	D	Running cost base
I change 09 but do not 0A. Maybe some of your grfs affects Running cost base?

2Josef: what are default values for prop 0A for RVs?

According to the wiki, probably 4C48 (i.e. 48 4C 00 00).

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 20:35**

Snail wrote:Great! Glad you like them

You made a good research

Snail wrote:
George wrote:You mean with wide windows? Ok, Ill draw them
Actually, I was referring to the model in the pictures I sent you some days ago, ie the one with narrower windows and double rear window.

Yes, I got it

Snail wrote:But you could draw both variants, if that's possible and if it's not too much work for you, and let both be available using the "refit" feature... how does that sound? After all, it'd be just a different windows design.

Only windows? Bad idea. They'd have some difference. For example, years of production (inside the model years of production)

Snail wrote:If that's not possible, the narrower window design would do the trick, as it was more popular in many cities over here. The drawing I sent you refers strictly to the model used in Turin.

I think you should find/select/invent the difference and I shall make both the variants.

Snail wrote:I also think I saw some buses of yours seem to have kind of "default" colors, like the yellow tone which sometimes appears on the earlier Mercedes bus (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no expert)

Yes, Mercedes O6600H, O302, Ikarus260/280 have "default" liveries.

Snail wrote:If adding such a "default" color is possible, it'd be cool if some of the 421's appeared light green until the late Seventies and orange later, since that model was painted in those colors almost everywhere.

Green? Photos please...

Snail wrote:Or maybe a mixture of those and the company colors.
The same goes for the Inbus, except that its color should be orange at all times, being a later bus. This only applies to urban variants though.

Only urban? And what was the other's?

Snail wrote:Besides, I'm starting to think the Inbus' articulated version had a different name than U210. I'll try to look for the actual name and I'll tell you.

I can display different name after capacity via callback 19. It is written on the drawing. AU280FT - 4 doors, AS280FT - 3 doors. Where did you took whose drawings? May be you could take pages with weight, capacity there?

Snail wrote:Capacity: 22 seats, 79 standing (maximum declared... guess it'd be a little less )

I see only 16 seats on the posted drawing. Please, obtain more specific information for capacity of 421AC and 421AL

On the U210 drawing it is specified capacity 102 (20+1+81), weigth 11.5.
Find weight and capacity for AS280FT, AU280FT, please
Also look for the specified speed for U210, AS280FT, AU280FT if possible.

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 20:38**

Patchman wrote:
George wrote:
krtaylor wrote:OK, so, we see for some reason I am being over charged on the maintenance. Now we need to find out why.
Code: Select all
	Properties for road vehicles
	09	B	Running cost factor
	0A	D	Running cost base
I change 09 but do not 0A. Maybe some of your grfs affects Running cost base?
2Josef: what are default values for prop 0A for RVs?
According to the wiki, probably 4C48 (i.e. 48 4C 00 00).

Probably?
May be some set changes them?

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 20:51**

"Probably" means I'm not able to test it, but it should be correct.

I don't know why the tropicset would change it though, maybe it's a bug in the patch even. I hope I'll have time to look at the patch again this week.

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 21:53**

I re-checked my GRF file, and did some tests.

I DID have the tropicset in my CFG file, but it had the ! mark, so it shouldn't have made any difference. I un-checked it completely, and sure enough, it made no difference. So that wasn't the cause.

Then I worked through all the odd GRFs in my CFG, un-checking them one at a time. It made no difference. I didn't try it with the US set, any of George's long vehicles, or the standard stuff (slope-tracks, etc.)

I tried a reload of the vehicles. Still no difference.

It sounds like I should zip up my complete GRF folder and CFG file, for someone to try to test with this savegame, to see if they get the same effect. Or are there any other ideas?

Posted: **10 Jan 2005 21:55**

Have you TTDAltered your game?

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