Transport Tycoon Forums

Thanks, these reports really help. Are there more?

I have some clusters of farms on a new game I've just started with a pretty impressive density: am I really supposed to be /quite/ this spoiled? I do allow multiple industries of the same type per town, so I'm sure it's technically legit, but even so... I presume it's a distortion introduced by my using 'Very Low' settings for industries, towns, and indeed everything else in the main game settings window.

That said, I do appreciate having related industries grouping together. Makes much better sense than a random scattering across the map.

Simons Mith wrote:I presume it's a distortion introduced by my using 'Very Low' settings for industries, towns, and indeed everything else in the main game settings window.

Yes it's probably a side effect of map settings. What you're seeing isn't quite as intended - but isn't quite a bug either

Quick follow-up - as should be expected, sanity is restored if I turn off the 'Allow multiple similar industries per town' option under Economy->Industries in the Advanced settings before creating a new game.

[Edit for clarity]

I started a new game with Chill´s patchpack 13.5 and found that there is no builders yard available. Older builds work. Anyone else experienced that problem?

I do have a builders yard in trunk with that FIRS, so either it is a messed up game, or the patchpack broke the industries.

It works fine for me too.
I have tried both new games and the scenario editor in 1900 and 1950 ...

Coxx, If you can not get it to work properly then please post your savegame in my patchpack thread so I can have a looksie at your gamelog and settings.

Good news first: Nothing wrong with FIRS.
Well, I should have added: I started a new game on an old map. Everything worked nicely, exept the builders yard was missing, which I only noted later in the game. It was missing even in the editor with no other grf´s. Starting the game anew, and there it was (in the editor). I guess it´s due former settings of this map which still have some effect even when they are no longer activ. It´s a shame one can´t use old maps with new grf´s.

Coxx wrote: Good news first: Nothing wrong with FIRS.

It´s a shame one can´t use old maps with new grf´s.

Changing GRFs afterwards was not, is not and will never be a safe action to perform. That is why the option has been removed for "normal" users. Your trouble is yet another proof that the correct decision was made. (Not that yet another case was needed as proof.)
Sometimes, very sometimes, GRFs can safely be upgraded but if an author does not say so when releasing a newer version then assume you can not without causing trouble.

There are two ways you can play old maps with new/other GRFs.

1. The first way is the simplest but wether or not it will work succesfully depends on how the old game was created.
In the console type "getseed" and write down the seed that appears. If the scenario was made from a generated heightmap (and not altered afterwards) than the map will look the same if you use that seed while generating a new game/scenario map with it.

2. If, with the first method, the generated map looks nothing like the old map than you can still create a heightmap from the currently loaded game (New feature in trunk by Alberth). You can then load this heightmap in the scenario editor or start a new game with it. This method guarantees that the terrain will look the same as the old game.

Both methods allow to choose the used GRFs you want to use yourself in a safe way.


ps:
- If it is both the look of the map and the industry placement that you'd like to keep then go for method 2 and place the industries yourself in the scenario editor.


Sorry for my offtopic ramblings andythenorth, still enjoying FIRS very much.
Without wanting to push you ... any idea when you will be starting on economy parameters or rather at what version we can expect them to appear?

FIRS 065 beta Behaviour query:

When a previously-negected industry gets its first ever delivery, is there still supposed to be a risk of the industry closing anyway, a few weeks after the delivery? Or are you /supposed/ to be able to assume that that industry is now safe from closure?

Edit 1:(This question is with industry closures turned on, naturally)

Edit 2: Another issue - this time a minor bug - sugar refineries can suffer the 'oil refinery' disaster.

Edit 3: ... and a forest causing subsidence. This is a new one on me, although I have seen the sugar refinery disaster before now. See screengrab.

I've noticed some industries have special requirements when being funded. Unfortunately, these requirements aren't always obvious. Clearly, the Oil Rig needs to be in open waters, and the Quarry needs to be on a large flat surface, but the requirements for placing some industries like the store, petrol station, or even the junk yard, are a little bit sketchy. I've tried to place a junk yard in an open flat area both near a town and in the middle of nowhere, and I always seem to get a "site unsuitable" error. For stores and petrol pumps, unless I am clicking on the name of a very small town, I cannot get them to build, and I am not sure why. I've looked for a guide, but haven't found it (yet, if it does exist). If a guide does not exist, is there any chance that information could be added to the wiki?

Thanks!

-SC

Simons Mith wrote:When a previously-negected industry gets its first ever delivery, is there still supposed to be a risk of the industry closing anyway, a few weeks after the delivery? Or are you /supposed/ to be able to assume that that industry is now safe from closure?

It should be safe.

Edit 2: Another issue - this time a minor bug - sugar refineries can suffer the 'oil refinery' disaster.
Edit 3: ... and a forest causing subsidence. This is a new one on me, although I have seen the sugar refinery disaster before now.

These should be fixed in 0.7.

Seems interesting, am messing with it now.
For fishing though are the big goods ships really all you can use? No little fishing boats? Kind of spoils that.

did you try FISH ?

ShadowCat38 wrote:I've noticed some industries have special requirements when being funded. Unfortunately, these requirements aren't always obvious. Clearly, the Oil Rig needs to be in open waters, and the Quarry needs to be on a large flat surface, but the requirements for placing some industries like the store, petrol station, or even the junk yard, are a little bit sketchy. I've tried to place a junk yard in an open flat area both near a town and in the middle of nowhere, and I always seem to get a "site unsuitable" error. For stores and petrol pumps, unless I am clicking on the name of a very small town, I cannot get them to build, and I am not sure why. I've looked for a guide, but haven't found it (yet, if it does exist). If a guide does not exist, is there any chance that information could be added to the wiki?

Thanks!

-SC

Junkyards have to be placed really close to towns (most junkyards IRL are just outside of town) while petrol stations and stores need to be built over a certain town building (some work some dont) Also, remember that some industries take up more then one tile, like the petrol station which is 1x2 tiles \

ShadowCat38 wrote:Unfortunately, these requirements aren't always obvious.-SC

I think we can take it as suggestion to improve error messages on industry placement in the upcoming version

I've just noticed that even when you deliver engineering or farm supplies to an industry, the 'supplies waiting to be processed' indicator never displays anything other than zero tonnes. I am only delivering these supplies one tonne at a time, but I am managing 5-8 deliveries per industry per month, so even if it's a rounding error shouldn't I still see it round up sometimes...?

The indicator is working as expected for deliveries of 2t+ of clay to a brick works, for hundreds of tonnes at a time of sand to the same industry, and wood to various sawmills.

Simons Mith wrote:I've just noticed that even when you deliver engineering or farm supplies to an industry, the 'supplies waiting to be processed' indicator never displays anything other than zero tonnes. I am only delivering these supplies one tonne at a time, but I am managing 5-8 deliveries per industry per month, so even if it's a rounding error shouldn't I still see it round up sometimes...?

The indicator is working as expected for deliveries of 2t+ of clay to a brick works, for hundreds of tonnes at a time of sand to the same industry, and wood to various sawmills.

We shall see how that works in the next version... In the process of converting this set to NML I just rewrote the production code... in principle it should not suffer from this problem and accumulate deliveries until the needed fraction for production is reached (but supplies will always count as delivered in terms of production boost, whether too few for actually processing them or not)
So bugs in the production code of FIRS nightlies and the upcoming 0.7 version might be my fault

planetmaker wrote:

ShadowCat38 wrote:Unfortunately, these requirements aren't always obvious.-SC

I think we can take it as suggestion to improve error messages on industry placement in the upcoming version

It is probably a huge undertaking, and it may not be worth the effort, but for industries that are very picky about placement, having tiles become highlighted placement suggestions might help. I'm not sure if it would be easier to have all possible tiles highlight once the tool is selected, or if it would be better to have a rectangular array of the minimum size for all structure layout versions of the particular industry follow the cursor and become green in valid locations and red(or just not green) in other places. I've noticed that no type of array follows the cursor when funding new industries, and there is probably a good reason for that (random structure layouts, for one). Since I've not done any dev work, I just don't know.

As far as improved error messages go, I'd say that would be a HUGE step in the right direction.

Zip of FIRS 0.7.0-beta1 is now available here: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/rel ... 7.0-beta1/

This is a beta release of FIRS 0.7 and contains hundreds of changes since the previous release of FIRS. Highlights include a complete conversion from nfo to nml, and significant improvements to the graphics of multiple industries. Full changelog copied below.

This beta release will not be available on bananas. It's intended for:
- testing, reporting and fixing any bugs before a bananas release.
- translators. The translations framework has changed in FIRS with the conversion to nml. Translations will need to be updated. There is an updated script to list strings that need translating: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nig ... ATEST/log/

This is a big release. Thanks to all who helped. The nml conversion was mostly the work of yexo, planetmaker and Terkhen; many others have also contributed to this release.

-- Changelog --
--------------
0.7.x Releases
--------------

*0.7.0-beta1*
- first beta release
- intended for translators to update translations
- intended to find bugs prior to 0.7.0 release

FIRS 0.7 is *not* savegame compatible with any previous release of FIRS.

*What's new in 0.7?*

Several hundred changes since FIRS 0.6.4

*New / Changed Industries*
- Hardware Store (accepts Building Materials, Goods)
- Recycling Depot (produces Recyclables)
- Recycling Plant (accepts Recyclables, produces two random cargos from this list: Building Materials, Chemicals, Engineering Supplies, Farm Supplies, Manufacturing Supplies, Scrap Metal)
- Hotel (accepts Food, Alcohol, Passengers, produces Passengers)

- Food Market now accepts Fruit instead of Goods

*Removed Industries*
- None

*New / Changed Cargos*
- Introduce separate cargo labels for Sugar Beet (SGBT) and Sugarcane (SBCN). Helps vehicle set authors provide more specific graphics.
- Recyclables cargo, produced by Recycling Depot, accepted by Recycling Plant

*New Features*
- Parameter to prevent industry opening during game (useful for scenarios / multi-player challenges)
- Hint on possible locations for farms in the fund menu
- Petrol Pump will locate next to roads, in or out of towns
- Animation (flag) for Dairy
- Animation (pumps) for Oil Wells
- Fences for some industries
- Graphics to show metal at Metal Foundry
- Improved appearance of Dairy
- Improved appearance of Arable Farm farmhouse
- Improved appearance of Fruit Plantation farmhouse
- Improved appearance of Furniture Factory
- Improved appearance of Dairy Farm farmhouse
- Improved appearance of Mixed Farm farmhouse
- Improved appearance of Sheep Farm farmhouse
- Improved appearance of Fishing Harbour (updated fishing boats, missing waves)
- Improved appearance of Grain Mill (bakery)
- Improved appearance of Grain Mill (windmill)
- Improved appearance of Glass Works
- Improved appearance of Petrol Pump
- Improved appearance of Sugar Refinery
- Improved appearance of Plastics Plant
- Improved appearance of Textile Mill
- Improved appearance of Machine Shop
- Improved appearance of Oil Wells (building added)
- Additional layout for Sheep Farm
- Additional layouts for reworked Glass Works
- Snow for Aluminium Mill
- Snow for Dairy
- Snow for Food Market
- Snow for Hotel
- Snow for Petrol Pump
- Snow for Sheep Farm
- Snow for Builders Yard
- Snow for Lime Kiln
- Snow for Forge
- Better snow support (greeble tile) for Forest

*Fixes*
- Allow the player to also place industries where s/he wants in the scenario editor
- Builders Yard had spec flag set twice
- Builders Yard construction probability was wrong
- Lime Kiln construction probability was wrong
- Store construction probability was wrong
- flickering graphics issue solved for Fishing Harbour
- cargo slot 1E left empty for NARS2 rehearing compatibility
- small amounts of delivered cargo could be 'lost' at secondary industries

*Internal changes*
- FIRS converted entirely to nml instead of nfo
- replaced more pcx graphics files with png files

*Translations additions / updates*
- Italian translation (Snail)
- Polish translation (Radmir)
- Russian translation (kvwrd)
- Serbian translation (Etran)
- Update Dutch translation (Alberth)
- Update Spanish translation (Terkhen)
- Update German translation (Eddi / Planetmaker)
- !! translations framework changed, translations require updating for 0.7.x
- updated script to log missing strings: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nig ... ATEST/log/

*Documentation*
- Add GPL header to all industry files.

*Additional Compatibility checks*
- FIRS 0.7 will report requirement for OTTD 1.2.0 or r22780 or later
- Set FIRS 0.7 as minimum compatible version to prevent breaking savegames using older FIRS

And finally a screenshot by planetmaker