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Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 28 May 2023 00:53
by Andrew350
So, I'm trying to decide whether the current electricity mechanic really works or not and honestly I'm thinking it's just a bit too awkward and needs to go, but could use some opinions on what to do instead.
Someone once suggested an alternative idea of delivering solar panels, which has the benefit of still providing basically the same resource but without needing the current awkward delivery system, and also potentially opens up some possible future industry chain ideas.
One small hesitation is that going "solar punk" might feel a bit out of place for a post-apocalyptic world, but then again this would be intended as the final cargo to essentially climb out of that hole, so maybe it's appropriate?
Also I would need to figure out an appropriate production chain to make it sensible and still provide that "final level" challenge, without feeling too contrived. I have sand and oil production already, so the basic raw ingredients are there, but how to get that (and maybe other stuff) to the final product while ensuring the transportation of everything along the way still makes sense might be tricky.
I'm obviously just spitballing a bit here but I definitely feel like something needs to change and could maybe do with some ideas
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 28 May 2023 11:00
by Fuerfrost
Well, you could go the route of increasingly complex requirements akin to FIRS or something. Honestly, that's always been my biggest gripe about wasteland is that there's not enough complexity
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 29 May 2023 19:33
by LaChupacabra
I've already written many theories
here,
here and
here... so I'll write some more.
Andrew350 wrote: ↑28 May 2023 00:53
So, I'm trying to decide whether the current electricity mechanic really works or not and honestly I'm thinking it's just a bit too awkward and needs to go, but could use some opinions on what to do instead.
For me, electricity is ok. Maybe only transmission lines, if possible, should be a type of
road that can't connect or cross with any other. And maybe the power plant shouldn't burn that oil so fast. If you remove it, I won't cry, but I also think it's an interesting gameplay element.
Ok, there's one more thing, but it's a more general point. It was better if electricity and other cargoes could be delivered to non-removable enterprises instead of to buildings that cease to accept them over time. I can understand the fading acceptance of irradiated food, but building materials? Electricity? Regardless of whether it makes sense or not, constantly rebuilding networks and connections is just tedious and discouraging.
However, speaking of a really significant problem... when I returning to Wasteland after a long break, I had no idea what to do to make cities grow and not shrink. The problem is definitely the incomprehensible rules of urban development. A script that would show what the city needs in the city window would really be useful. Alternatively, it could be the story book page that will open when you start the game. The script could also distribute electricity to surrounding cities.
That was the plan for the NWD script. Industrial production was counted within a certain radius from the city (the farther away, the smaller the impact). It was the same in plan to the electricity. Perhaps the script could also decide what trees would grow, or it could plant them near forest nurseries.
Fuerfrost wrote: ↑28 May 2023 11:00
Well, you could go the route of increasingly complex requirements akin to FIRS or something. Honestly, that's always been my biggest gripe about wasteland is that there's not enough complexity
Yes, for example, a robot factory that would replace the "dying" Wastelanders would be useful
Btw. There's still at least some very good yours art that hasn't been added...
download/file.php?id=217490
download/file.php?id=215421
download/file.php?id=194416
by oftcrash
viewtopic.php?p=1175792#p1175792
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 29 May 2023 21:26
by odisseus
As for myself, I like the Wasteland in its current form (version 0.5.0). Its complexity lies not in the multitude of cargo types, but in the way the supply and demand evolves along with the cities.
At the initial stage, all you need is delivering water and irradiated food, and you'll get plenty of wastelanders to boost your extraction industries. As the cities advance to the next stage, you need to set up a complex network in order to deliver clean food, as well as keep connecting new towns in order to maintain the supply of wastelanders. Finally, after all the towns have become self-sufficient, you need to set up passenger services, which would have been a complete waste of money at any of the previous stages.
Please don't turn the Wasteland into yet another imitation of FIRS.
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 06 Jun 2023 11:16
by Revenge_of_KioTheDev
Andrew350 wrote: ↑28 May 2023 00:53
So, I'm trying to decide whether the current electricity mechanic really works or not and honestly I'm thinking it's just a bit too awkward and needs to go, but could use some opinions on what to do instead.
Someone once suggested an alternative idea of delivering solar panels, which has the benefit of still providing basically the same resource but without needing the current awkward delivery system, and also potentially opens up some possible future industry chain ideas.
One small hesitation is that going "solar punk" might feel a bit out of place for a post-apocalyptic world, but then again this would be intended as the final cargo to essentially climb out of that hole, so maybe it's appropriate?
Also I would need to figure out an appropriate production chain to make it sensible and still provide that "final level" challenge, without feeling too contrived. I have sand and oil production already, so the basic raw ingredients are there, but how to get that (and maybe other stuff) to the final product while ensuring the transportation of everything along the way still makes sense might be tricky.
I'm obviously just spitballing a bit here but I definitely feel like something needs to change and could maybe do with some ideas
any chance you could release electric mains as separate grf? i would be willing to code it myself if not but can not find sprite sheet any where
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 06 Aug 2023 11:33
by Andrew350
Hi all, so just to give an update and remind you that I'm not dead, I have started working on this again but it has been a while so I'm starting with some low-hanging fruit.
A couple of years ago 2TallTyler commented that he was confused about what to do about the delivery of wastelanders and what effect it would have on the mine industries, so I (finally) updated the industry text to hopefully give a clearer description of what is happening.
Now the stockpile text shows the actual amount of Wastelanders delivered rather than the default useless "0 waiting" text (new screenshot is showing an unserviced industry, so still 0, but it is a realtime value now), and as such I've simplified the help text to explain what to do based on that value. Hopefully it will be more clear now
- Unnamed, 3000-01-01.png (47.95 KiB) Viewed 4074 times
There have been some other decisions, and improvements so far, but I will reveal those at a later date. I am still trying to get re-acquainted with the code I left behind in the meantime, and assess what I'm going to do in the long-term, specifically about replacing the electricity mechanic with an extended industry chain
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 06 Aug 2023 21:19
by Revenge_of_KioTheDev
Andrew350 wrote: ↑06 Aug 2023 11:33
Hi all, so just to give an update and remind you that I'm not dead, I have started working on this again but it has been a while so I'm starting with some low-hanging fruit.
A couple of years ago 2TallTyler commented that he was confused about what to do about the delivery of wastelanders and what effect it would have on the mine industries, so I (finally) updated the industry text to hopefully give a clearer description of what is happening.
Now the stockpile text shows the actual amount of Wastelanders delivered rather than the default useless "0 waiting" text (new screenshot is showing an unserviced industry, so still 0, but it is a realtime value now), and as such I've simplified the help text to explain what to do based on that value. Hopefully it will be more clear now
Unnamed, 3000-01-01.png
There have been some other decisions, and improvements so far, but I will reveal those at a later date. I am still trying to get re-acquainted with the code I left behind in the meantime, and assess what I'm going to do in the long-term, specifically about replacing the electricity mechanic with an extended industry chain
if so, is source code available? would like to mess around with electric pipe, see if can make mod to provide it separately
thank you for this set
most often i play opengfx mars so am glad another "what-if" scenario is possible with just mods
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 06 Aug 2023 22:45
by Andrew350
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 08 Feb 2024 20:47
by Jebus
Hi all!
First of all I'd like to thank you for that nice mod, I enjoy it a lot! It's a whole new experience while playing OTTD. Great work!!!
I've made a litte scenario to test Wasteland and I want to share it. Created in jgrpp-Patchpack Version 0.56.2
Welcome to the Mojave!
It's a map with limited resources. Basically all of the water, the only Food Lab / Building Material Factory / Chemical Plant and all the Farms are in the Southeast of the map so you are forced to build up the three cities in this corner first. From this on you should be able to transport water etc. to the other cities on the map to grow. The goal is to bring New Vegas to self-sufficiency from a distance.
The scenario is semi-tested. I hope there is enough water on the map to deliver to all of the towns.
Tested with jgrpp-Patchpack and over 500 cars in the starting phase
Oh I would recommend to put "Static Secondary Industries" off - otherwise the fun is gone ^^
Criticism is welcome! Hope you have fun.
-----
But here a little suggestion in the end. Instead of draining electricity to power substations I'd welcome it if it would be possible to boost water pumps with it. Would have helped me on my map to generate more water for the northern cities in the later game.
Also I would love to have a second tier buggy. I love that thing
And a last question. What exactly is the use of the highway? Is there a higher speet-limit?
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 09 Feb 2024 05:21
by kamnet
Jebus wrote: ↑08 Feb 2024 20:47
Tested with jgrpp-Patchpack and over 500 cars in the starting phase
Was it created with JGRPP? If so, please make a note of this and which version was used. Scenarios created in JGRPP cannot run on the standard OpenTTD client.
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 09 Feb 2024 08:47
by Jebus
kamnet wrote: ↑09 Feb 2024 05:21
Jebus wrote: ↑08 Feb 2024 20:47
Tested with jgrpp-Patchpack and over 500 cars in the starting phase
Was it created with JGRPP? If so, please make a note of this and which version was used. Scenarios created in JGRPP cannot run on the standard OpenTTD client.
Thanks for the piece of advice, I edited my post
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 09 Feb 2024 11:05
by Auge
Hello
Meldrian, a team member of the german Linux gaming online magazine
holarse.de, recently ran a Wasteland session and
wrote about it on Mastodon in german language.
[edit]
translated with deepl.com:
I'm really excited right now.
It's about #openTTD
Did you know there's a mod for it that transforms the game map into the Wasteland from #Fallout?
Heavens, there's even a scenario map that recreates the game world from parts 1, 2 and 3. I'm moving irradiated food from Shady Sands to Vault 13 right now!
It's totally insane. It's not just the visuals, it's a completely customised Wasteland-style inventory cycle.
It's great.
[/edit]
Tschö, Auge
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 01:20
by senfmann
Hello there! I really like this mod and idea, good stuff.
TL;DR I'm stupid and the problem solved itself, but I thought maybe you'd like to know this.
Came from the Fallout scenario and was going crazy because I could for the love of all that's holy not figure out why I couldn't grow towns. They never accepted water for whatever reason. Everything else was fine, it was to the point I set up advanced industries to somehow escape this conundrum, which proved fruitless, Shady Sands was still at a population of 20, living in ruins. I even tried unloading the water with building materials (who were also not accepted at this stage) forcibly but only the food was taken. No matter where I scanned, no station would accept water. I even found a remote shack that was already on Level 2 of the building and could technically accept building materials.
Tried it without the scenario, now I couldn't generate maps because it aborted at a failed town generation (no valid space for towns), I reset everything I did and could generate them normally without this GRF. Reset my entire game to a blank slate, changed language to US etc, still not possible with the Wasteland mod. I was starting to go crazy and in a vain hope created this account to ask what's happening.
Then I found, wew, I was using the Beta version of OpenTTD that recently came out (mainly for the graphics and the bus unbunching and I barely use modifications, this is a new world to me). Turned it off to last stable release and *poof* it works. Now I will use the Beta only for non-modified games. It's weird too because I tried a few scenarios who worked quite well with the Beta.
The point of me writing this, other than to let off steam (I "wasted" like 90 minutes troubleshooting and research(I read this entire thread! in hopes someone had the same problem)) is maybe you'd want to know that for some reason the new OpenTTD version might break a few things with accepting water and town generation.
Have a nice day y'all!
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 25 Feb 2024 13:23
by agentw4b
Auge wrote: ↑09 Feb 2024 11:05
Hello
Meldrian, a team member of the german Linux gaming online magazine
holarse.de, recently ran a Wasteland session and
wrote about it on Mastodon in german language.
[edit]
translated with deepl.com:
I'm really excited right now.
It's about #openTTD
Did you know there's a mod for it that transforms the game map into the Wasteland from #Fallout?
Heavens, there's even a scenario map that recreates the game world from parts 1, 2 and 3. I'm moving irradiated food from Shady Sands to Vault 13 right now!
It's totally insane. It's not just the visuals, it's a completely customised Wasteland-style inventory cycle.
It's great.
[/edit]
Tschö, Auge
Scénář Fallout 1,2,3 jsem vytvořil před mnoha lety Já, ale nepovažuji to za dobrou mapu. Problém je v tom, že jsem znal jen velmi málo měst na východním pobřeží USA, která přežila jadernou válku a zamoření viry v roce 2077, takže mapa je většinou prázdná a města na západě jsou naopak příliš hustě zaplněná. spolu. Mapa měla být ve větším rozlišení, nebo měla obsahovat pouze západní pobřeží USA. Další Fallout mapu vytvořil někdo jiný roky po mně, ale nelíbilo se mi nepřesné umístění některých tamních měst. Ale hrál jsem jen Fallout 1, Fallout 2, takže novější hry neznám. Ale je fajn, že to někdo chválí.
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 12:18
by pasantoro
senfmann wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024 01:20
Hello there! I really like this mod and idea, good stuff.
TL;DR I'm stupid and the problem solved itself, but I thought maybe you'd like to know this.
Came from the Fallout scenario and was going crazy because I could for the love of all that's holy not figure out why I couldn't grow towns. They never accepted water for whatever reason. Everything else was fine, it was to the point I set up advanced industries to somehow escape this conundrum, which proved fruitless, Shady Sands was still at a population of 20, living in ruins. I even tried unloading the water with building materials (who were also not accepted at this stage) forcibly but only the food was taken. No matter where I scanned, no station would accept water. I even found a remote shack that was already on Level 2 of the building and could technically accept building materials.
Tried it without the scenario, now I couldn't generate maps because it aborted at a failed town generation (no valid space for towns), I reset everything I did and could generate them normally without this GRF. Reset my entire game to a blank slate, changed language to US etc, still not possible with the Wasteland mod. I was starting to go crazy and in a vain hope created this account to ask what's happening.
Then I found, wew, I was using the Beta version of OpenTTD that recently came out (mainly for the graphics and the bus unbunching and I barely use modifications, this is a new world to me). Turned it off to last stable release and *poof* it works. Now I will use the Beta only for non-modified games. It's weird too because I tried a few scenarios who worked quite well with the Beta.
The point of me writing this, other than to let off steam (I "wasted" like 90 minutes troubleshooting and research(I read this entire thread! in hopes someone had the same problem)) is maybe you'd want to know that for some reason the new OpenTTD version might break a few things with accepting water and town generation.
Have a nice day y'all!
I'm trying to generate a new game using Wasteland (v 0.5.0), but I keep getting the same error:
when I get to the stage 'Build or generate towns' and there is only one left, the script
keeps running and then stops with the error message 'Map generation aborted... no suitable town locations'
I've tried different combinations in the world generator, but the error occurs in all of them.
I'm using the official OpenTTD 14.0 from the website and OpenGFX base graphics set, no AI.
Is there something I'm doing wrong or forgetting?
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 14:35
by senfmann
pasantoro wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 12:18
I'm trying to generate a new game using Wasteland (v 0.5.0), but I keep getting the same error:
when I get to the stage 'Build or generate towns' and there is only one left, the script
keeps running and then stops with the error message 'Map generation aborted... no suitable town locations'
I've tried different combinations in the world generator, but the error occurs in all of them.
I'm using the official OpenTTD 14.0 from the website and OpenGFX base graphics set, no AI.
Is there something I'm doing wrong or forgetting?
Hello! Unfortunately 0.5.0 does not work with OpenTTD 14.0 as of now for some reason. It breaks the town generation as you see. The only way to experience is either through using the GRF I provided with the Fallout map, but I can't guarantee it doesn't break other stuff, like accepting water, although a quick look into my old save worked fine. New generation with Wasteland 0.5.0 doesn't work because of the problem you describe. You need to use the 13.4 release unfortunately until it gets fixed.
Regards
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 15:07
by kamnet
pasantoro wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 12:18
I'm trying to generate a new game using Wasteland (v 0.5.0), but I keep getting the same error:
when I get to the stage 'Build or generate towns' and there is only one left, the script
keeps running and then stops with the error message 'Map generation aborted... no suitable town locations
senfmann wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 14:35
Hello! Unfortunately 0.5.0 does not work with OpenTTD 14.0 as of now for some reason.
I got it figured out I think. Wasteland 0.5.0 is doing something weird with the roads that is now failing in OpenTTD 14. If you load a NewGRF road set after Wasteland, problem is resolved with the downside that it's probably building a paved road and thus breaking he immersion a little bit, but it's playable.
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 15 Apr 2024 15:23
by senfmann
kamnet wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 15:07
I got it figured out I think. Wasteland 0.5.0 is doing something weird with the roads that is now failing in OpenTTD 14. If you load a NewGRF road set after Wasteland, problem is resolved with the downside that it's probably building a paved road and thus breaking he immersion a little bit, but it's playable.
Thanks, I figured as such. For some reason it doesn't like the new roads, but I couldn't find a workaround, thank you!
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 18 Apr 2024 22:37
by pasantoro
kamnet wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 15:07
pasantoro wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 12:18
I'm trying to generate a new game using Wasteland (v 0.5.0), but I keep getting the same error:
when I get to the stage 'Build or generate towns' and there is only one left, the script
keeps running and then stops with the error message 'Map generation aborted... no suitable town locations
senfmann wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 14:35
Hello! Unfortunately 0.5.0 does not work with OpenTTD 14.0 as of now for some reason.
I got it figured out I think. Wasteland 0.5.0 is doing something weird with the roads that is now failing in OpenTTD 14. If you load a NewGRF road set after Wasteland, problem is resolved with the downside that it's probably building a paved road and thus breaking he immersion a little bit, but it's playable.
Thanks, I will try it.
Re: Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!
Posted: 27 Apr 2024 19:22
by Lurkmore
pasantoro wrote: ↑18 Apr 2024 22:37
kamnet wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 15:07
pasantoro wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 12:18
I'm trying to generate a new game using Wasteland (v 0.5.0), but I keep getting the same error:
when I get to the stage 'Build or generate towns' and there is only one left, the script
keeps running and then stops with the error message 'Map generation aborted... no suitable town locations
senfmann wrote: ↑15 Apr 2024 14:35
Hello! Unfortunately 0.5.0 does not work with OpenTTD 14.0 as of now for some reason.
I got it figured out I think. Wasteland 0.5.0 is doing something weird with the roads that is now failing in OpenTTD 14. If you load a NewGRF road set after Wasteland, problem is resolved with the downside that it's probably building a paved road and thus breaking he immersion a little bit, but it's playable.
Thanks, I will try it.
That's disappointing. I liked that feature, it was easier to "renovate" existing roads than to build new ones.
Edit: I thought to point out it might be best to make the 'utility corridor' tramtype and the electricity chain a separate parameter than the other roadtypes if you consider it an unsuitable addition. I personally modified my copy to exclude it but now that I better understand parameter syntax I can understand it's not an instant fix, however it is relatively simple to implement. I might look into it when I get back from handing out resumes.